** WON ** LP1 - is this a valid CCA? ( Lloyds )

[Amethyst]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

All you need in the letter is


Dear Lowell

Thank you again for your somewhat delayed response to my request for a true copy of the alleged agreement under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.

You must realise (again) the document copy you have sent to me is not a copy of a credit agreement and does not satisfy my formal request made under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and does not comply with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 in any case.

You will be aware that under s.78(6) of the Cosnumer Credit Act 1974 while you remain in default of my request you are unable to enforce the agreement.

Please send me a true copy of the credit agreement applicable to this account.

Kind regards.

..............................

[mystery1]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

In this case it is neither a true copy nor contains the prescribed terms - what they have sent just isn't the credit agreement, so we don't even need worry about prescribed terms, they haven't fulfilled s.78 yet... at all.

If the poster has no recollection of actually applying for the card it's a tough gig to argue the s78 copy isn't a true copy. Pretty simple to then say it's s127(3) non compliant though.

This could later turn in to a mess in any court case though if the evidence changes. However, if they change it to suit s127(3) then s78 becomes an issue.

M1

[Amethyst]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

But it isn't a credit agreement.

I'm really confused why peeps are saying it is, when it just isn't. Am I just having a nervous breakdown here?

[mystery1]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

Format is irrelevant. It's the information that is key. If it contains all that was on the original it is a copy. If it doesn't, it's not. How can the poster say it's not if they have no idea what was on it to start with ?

It might look nothing like a true copy, and probably isn't, but how do you convince a court ?

M1

[Amethyst]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

You say look, this is some of the companies random internal notes and in way way shape or form is a credit agreement, they haven't complied with s.78, because they have not sent me a credit agreement, true copy or not, prescribed terms or not, this just isn't a credit agreement - regardless of whether I can remember it or not.

''shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement (if any) and of any other document referred to in it, ''

Without the debtors details on there is is just a empty sheet with Name: Address: etc on it.

I suppose you could say that the creditor says this IS a copy of the executed agreement then it falls down on, well, everything, other than having the debtors address on it so is unenforceable because of that ?

It's 2008 as well ....

[Amethyst]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

I suppose because they say it IS a copy of the credit agreement, then you have to argue the prescribed terms bits then ? despite it being blatantly obvious it isn't the/a credit agreement.

That's stupid, they could send a big X on a bit of bog roll and say that's the agreement and leave you to argue the non compliant with the CCA bits....

[mystery1]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

Well 127(3) is off the table but 127(1) isn't.

I suppose you could say that the creditor says this IS a copy of the executed agreement then it falls down on, well, everything, other than having the debtors address on it so is unenforceable because of that ?

It wouldn't be unenforceable if it was improperly executed since it's 2008.


One thing i note though, it doesn't have the creditors name and address on it which the original must have or there was in fact no agreement at all.

M1

[mystery1]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

I suppose because they say it IS a copy of the credit agreement, then you have to argue the prescribed terms bits then ? despite it being blatantly obvious it isn't the/a credit agreement.

That's stupid, they could send a big X on a bit of bog roll and say that's the agreement and leave you to argue the non compliant with the CCA bits....

That's why you should keep everything.

A big x would be fairly easy to defend though as there would be no terms at ll :tung:

M1

[mystery1]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

In fact, if they went to court on what they've provided, they'd be in real trouble as there are no terms to breach and no cause of action so although s78 may prove tricky it wouldn't be necessary to win

M1

[Amethyst]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

Ok with you now.... So letter back saying completely non compliant agreement rather than a plain it isn't a copy of the credit agreement ? maybe ask them to point out the term of the agreement that has been breached ? lol.

[mystery1]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

:okay:

Sometimes you have to forget what you know and ask yourself " what will an anti debtor judge with no CCA knowledge think"

M1

[sleslie86]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

Wow - lots of information to take in here, so what is the best action to take here? How do I formulate a letter based on the information you have both posted in this thread.

From reading, it seems I need to reply stating that what they have sent me is a "completely non compliant agreement" and there are no terms therefore nothing has been breached. Also, the creditors name and address is not on the document they have sent, which the original must have or there was in fact no agreement at all.

All your help is fantastic and your advise is invaluable.

KR,

sleslie86

[mystery1]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

Dear Lowell


Thank you again for your somewhat delayed response to my request for a true copy of the alleged agreement under the Consumer Credit Act section 78.


You must realise (again) the document copy you have sent to me is not a copy of a credit agreement and does not satisfy my formal request made under Section 78(1) of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and does not comply with the Consumer Credit (Cancellation Notices and Copies of Documents) Regulations 1983 in any case.


You will be aware that under s.78(6) of the Cosnumer Credit Act 1974 while you remain in default of my request you are unable to enforce the agreement.


Please send me a true copy of the credit agreement applicable to this account. I note that you say this IS a true copy in which case i ask you to stop any contact with me as there is no term that requires any repayment of money to yourselves or anyone else for that matter., no term of variation and no interest rate applicable.


Kind regards.

M1

[pt2537]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

Not only is that not a credit agreement in the sense that it doesnt contain the "prescribed terms" it also appears devoid of the information required by schedule 1 and 2 of the Consumer Credit (Agreements) Regulations 1983, so even if it had the prescribed terms, the omission of the other data would leave it likely to be unenforceable per Rank Xerox vs Hepple.

That is clealry an internet application, do we know when you opened the account? as if it was before 2005, it may be irredeemably unenforceable due to other breaches of the 1974 Act.

[Amethyst]

Re: LP1 - is this a valid CCA?

2008 xx