Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

[spotty dog]

I have lived at my current address since 2001. In January last year (2013) I started to receive rather vague letters from MKRR claiming that I owe £1200 to HSBC, a bank that I have never had any dealings with. The last of these letters (July 2013) was headed 'Final Demand' and stated that if unpaid the matter would be passed to Raven Recoveries. I telephoned HSBC to discuss these letters and they confirmed that they had no record of me on their system and they advised me to ignore any further letters. Three more letters came from Raven Recoveries (Sept, Oct & Nov 2013) followed by a 'Notice Of Intended Legal Action' from Keynes Collections (Dec 2013). Today, (09/01/14) I have received a MKDP LLP 'Claim Form' (Northampton CCBC) issued 06/01/14. This is the very first communication to outline details of the alleged debt in a section headed 'Particulars Of Claim'. This states the debt refers to a 'Regulated Agreement' and provides a HSBC account number. It also states that the debt was assigned to the claimant (8th Dec 2011). I have never been involved in anything like this before and I am looking for some advice as to what action I should take.

[seduraed]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

first of all dont panic . there will be some very experienced and knowledgable beagles along shortly. Acknowledge receipt and then wait for advice from this forum. I think that they need to be put to strict proof that the debt exists and is yours. It could be a mistake , or is there an old credit agreement you may have forgotton about that is not an hsbc one . I mention this as hsbc are a vast multinational and have book other lenders.

[Amethyst]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

Indeed. First step is to acknowledge the claim at moneyclaim online which will mean you have 28days from service of the claim form to sort out your defence / admission / offer.

Do you recognise the account number or debt at all ? Is it a current account overdraft debt, loan or c/card ??

Approx how much is the claim for ?

You want to send a CPR request in any case

such as

CPR letter to the solicitor
Dear Sir,

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:
CPR 31.14 Request

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1: the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2: the assignment*

3: the default notice*

4: the termination notice*

5: statement of account*

6: [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £10,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £10,000.00

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

In accordance with CPR 31.15(c) I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

Yours faithfully

[PlanB]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

vague letters from MKRR claiming that I owe £1200 to HSBC, a bank that I have never had any dealings with.

. . . . I telephoned HSBC to discuss these letters and they confirmed that they had no record of me on their system and they advised me to ignore any further letters. Three more letters came from Raven Recoveries (Sept, Oct & Nov 2013) followed by a 'Notice Of Intended Legal Action' from Keynes Collections (Dec 2013). Today, (09/01/14) I have received a MKDP LLP 'Claim Form' (Northampton CCBC) issued 06/01/14. This is the very first communication to outline details of the alleged debt in a section headed 'Particulars Of Claim'. This states the debt refers to a 'Regulated Agreement' and provides a HSBC account number. It also states that the debt was assigned to the claimant (8th Dec 2011).

HSBC Holdings bankroll/underwrite/manage a number of branded products such as Marks & Spencer (credit cards & personal loans), John Lewis credit and storecards, Waitrose storecard, Harvey Nichols storecard and many other financial products for different companies. This may be why HSBC bank couldn't find you on their system because they are a separate division handling current accounts and even mortgages etc. When MKDP bought the debt they would have pursued it under the HSBC name (since they are the original creditor) not the brand name.

MKDP, MKRR, Raven Recoveries and Keynes Collections are all the same company (The Compello Group). They tend to write numerous template letters on an escalating scale. It's most unusual for them to issue legal proceedings without having gone through all the letter writing process first over a number of weeks/months. Did you receive letters from them which you ignored?

Think back to pre-2011 as to whether you had any outstanding credit for approximately that £1,200 amount.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

MKDP, MKRR, Raven Recoveries and Keynes Collections are all the same company (The Compello Group). They tend to write numerous template letters on an escalating scale. It's most unusual for them to issue legal proceedings without having gone through all the letter writing process first over a number of weeks/months. Did you receive letters from them which you ignored?

Think back to pre-2011 as to whether you had any outstanding credit for approximately that £1,200 amount.

It looks like a number of letters were ignored, including a possible LBA from Keynes Collections.

The claim may well have been avoided by responding to those letters, perhaps with a CCA request to clarify the situation.

I would still send a CCA request at this stage, they have 14 days to respond and the OP should have a total of 28 days to submit a defence after acknowledging and stating intention to defend in full. :clock:

I have lived at my current address since 2001. In January last year (2013) I started to receive rather vague letters from MKRR claiming that I owe £1200 to HSBC, a bank that I have never had any dealings with. The last of these letters (July 2013) was headed 'Final Demand' and stated that if unpaid the matter would be passed to Raven Recoveries. I telephoned HSBC to discuss these letters and they confirmed that they had no record of me on their system and they advised me to ignore any further letters. Three more letters came from Raven Recoveries (Sept, Oct & Nov 2013) followed by a 'Notice Of Intended Legal Action' from Keynes Collections (Dec 2013). Today, (09/01/14) I have received a MKDP LLP 'Claim Form' (Northampton CCBC) issued 06/01/14. This is the very first communication to outline details of the alleged debt in a section headed 'Particulars Of Claim'. This states the debt refers to a 'Regulated Agreement' and provides a HSBC account number. It also states that the debt was assigned to the claimant (8th Dec 2011). I have never been involved in anything like this before and I am looking for some advice as to what action I should take.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

I have lived at my current address since 2001. In January last year (2013) I started to receive rather vague letters from MKRR claiming that I owe £1200 to HSBC, a bank that I have never had any dealings with. The last of these letters (July 2013) was headed 'Final Demand' and stated that if unpaid the matter would be passed to Raven Recoveries. I telephoned HSBC to discuss these letters and they confirmed that they had no record of me on their system and they advised me to ignore any further letters. Three more letters came from Raven Recoveries (Sept, Oct & Nov 2013) followed by a 'Notice Of Intended Legal Action' from Keynes Collections (Dec 2013). Today, (09/01/14) I have received a MKDP LLP 'Claim Form' (Northampton CCBC) issued 06/01/14. This is the very first communication to outline details of the alleged debt in a section headed 'Particulars Of Claim'. This states the debt refers to a 'Regulated Agreement' and provides a HSBC account number. It also states that the debt was assigned to the claimant (8th Dec 2011). I have never been involved in anything like this before and I am looking for some advice as to what action I should take.

You need to acknowledge the claim and state your intention to defend the claim in full. That should give you 28 days to submit your defence. You may want to look at this thread for CCA request and CPR 31.14 letters to be sent: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...955#post382955

Send them by recorded delivery, so they can be tracked. They should be signed digitally using a computer font rather than your real signature to be on the safe side. :thumb: The CCA request should be sent with a PO for £1 to cover the fee. They should respond in 14 days.

With the CPR 31.14 request, they should respond in 7 days, if they don't, you can get them to agree to an extension. Given the relatively small amount claimed, I'd say you should make sure the following paragraph is included in your CPR request, to stop them from arguing the claim would be allocated to small claims where CPR 31 doesn not apply:

Although your claim is for a sum which does not exceed £10,000.00 and thus in all likelihood it will be allocated to the small claims track once I deliver my defence, however as I am unable to lodge my defence at this moment, the case has not been allocated to a track for determination upon delivering a defence, as a consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) have no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise.

[spotty dog]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

Thanks to all of you who have responded to my original post - Here's an update.

I visited HSBC Bank earlier today, outlined this matter and provided proof of my identity. They checked their records and stated they are satisfied that the debt is owed by someone else whose details are similar to but not identical to mine. This person is known to reside in Cumbria and they have his details on file. They confirmed the debt was transferred by HSBC to a debt recovery agency and that HSBC would be investigating this matter as a 'mis-trace of identity'. HSBC contacted the debt recovery agency in an attempt to resolve this matter resulting in an official complaint being filed against HSBC by the debt recovery agency. HSBC require 8 weeks to complete their investigation and prepare a full report. HSBC telephoned MKDP and outlined the current situation. I have acknowledged receipt of the claim form via Moneyclaim Online and provided details of my defence.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

Thanks to all of you who have responded to my original post - Here's an update.

Which seems to make less than perfect sense.

I visited HSBC Bank earlier today, outlined this matter and provided proof of my identity. They checked their records and stated they are satisfied that the debt is owed by someone else whose details are similar to but not identical to mine. This person is known to reside in Cumbria and they have his details on file.

Then why are the debt parasites from the Land of the Concrete Cows after you?

They confirmed the debt was transferred by HSBC to a debt recovery agency and that HSBC would be investigating this matter as a 'mis-trace of identity'.

Why didn't that wunch of bankers pass on the details of the alleged debtor to the debt parasites?

HSBC contacted the debt recovery agency in an attempt to resolve this matter resulting in an official complaint being filed against HSBC by the debt recovery agency.

So MKDR aren't pleased, either?

HSBC require 8 weeks to complete their investigation and prepare a full report.

Why so long - do they rely on surface mail to and from China?

HSBC telephoned MKDP and outlined the current situation.

And has MKDR withdrawn the claim and made an appropriate offer of compensation for having tried to sue you?

I have acknowledged receipt of the claim form via Moneyclaim Online and provided details of my defence.

What is your defence - that the claimant has not complied with the CCA request or that the debtor they want isn't you?

[spotty dog]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

Which seems to make less than perfect sense.

Mis-trace of Identity = Human Error (By someone / somewhere along the line - to be investigated by HSBC)!

Then why are the debt parasites from the Land of the Concrete Cows after you?

Because they are acting on mis-information supplied to them by HSBC

So MKDR aren't pleased, either?

Understandably so!

Why so long - do they rely on surface mail to and from China?

HSBC work to set response times

And has MKDR withdrawn the claim and made an appropriate offer of compensation for having tried to sue you?

I intend to send MKRR a formal letter (by recorded delivery) stating that the claim form has been acknowledged and outlining the current situation. I will also request written notice of withdrawal together with an offer of compensation for alarm, distress and inconvenience caused to me and my family.

What is your defence - that the claimant has not complied with the CCA request or that the debtor they want isn't you?

That I am not the person responsible for the debt.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

Then why are the debt parasites from the Land of the Concrete Cows after you?
Why didn't that wunch of bankers pass on the details of the alleged debtor to the debt parasites?

Mis-trace of Identity = Human Error (By someone / somewhere along the line - to be investigated by HSBC)!
Because they are acting on mis-information supplied to them by HSBC

That is what I do not understand - if you've never had any dealings with HSBC, why/how did they pass your details to the debt parasites?

If you'd never had an account with them, they shouldn't have your details!

[MIKE770]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

Ouch! just got splinters from scratching my head on this one?????????

[spotty dog]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

That is what I do not understand - if you've never had any dealings with HSBC, why/how did they pass your details to the debt parasites?If you'd never had an account with them, they shouldn't have your details!

Now.... that is a very good question...

I will be returning to HSBC first thing tomorrow morning and asking the very same thing!

Thank you for being so astute - The plod thickens!

[spotty dog]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

That is what I do not understand - if you've never had any dealings with HSBC, why/how did they pass your details to the debt parasites?If you'd never had an account with them, they shouldn't have your details!

Now.... that is a very good question...

I will be returning to HSBC first thing tomorrow morning and asking the very same thing!

Thank you for being so astute - The plot thickens!

[CleverClogs]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

The plod thickens!

When were the police involved? :grin:

[spotty dog]

Re: Claim Form Issued - No Knowledge Of Alleged Debt....

When were the police involved? :grin:

Well 'spotted' - typo corrected.

But, you really have put the cat amongst the pigeons with your eagle eye!

When I visited HSBC on Friday (10/01/14) they were quite adamant that they had no record of me on their systems. This confirmed what they had previously told me when I enquired in July 2013. (Not surprising as I've never had any financial dealings with HSBC Bank). During my visit on Friday they promised to notify me in writing of the outcome of their investigation. I thought it would just be a case of leaving my name and address for the purpose of them sending me a letter. However, the lady explained that they wouldn't be able to send a letter unless my details were actually held on their system. (Further confirmation that they did not hold my details on their systems at that point in time.) She stated that the only way around this would be for her to create a basic 'profile' on their system so that they would have my address for the purposes of sending future correspondence.

It would appear that whilst HSBC may not have had my details on their specific system, there must be some other database which banks can refer to in a similar way that insurance companies 'share' information on a national system.

Failing this, I am totally mystified as to how HSBC has made this error and I am looking forward to hearing what they have to say tomorrow morning - thanks once again for being so sharp eyed.