Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

Allright i will spell it out as clearly as possible....

No agreement
no docs
no communication form vanquis/lowells etc since sar...

Question... Same one really...

What do i do now?... I dont want to hear about enforceability etc.. Because without any documents from them its all really very pointless...

I dont know if the agreement is enforcable because i havent seen it! Noone has... So its pointless refering me to a blog about it when i havent ver seen an agreement. In about 10 days time its very likely i will be ambushed by a made up agreement sent in their case bundle . Then i will have 14 days to do something or lose.

How do i get the court to stop ?

[Amethyst]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

There's no need to be rude finlander, thank you.

You have the hearing on the 19th December. You are where you are so that's fine.

You can do an application on the N244 form - you want to do a Draft Order for Directions to ask the judge to order Drydens to produce your CCA and other missing documents.

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

Im sorry... Im just getting frustrated because I don't know what to do. It seems that Im losing evn though the other side arent saying anything.

Just feeling like giving up realyy as there is to much else going on at the moment and I dont seem to be getting anywhere.

[Amethyst]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

They cannot enforce without the documents so you need to get the court to say - OI ! GIVE US YOUR DOCUMENTS ! - basically If they then don't comply with the Judges directions they can be struck out, if they do at least you can make a proper decision on defending or admission/offer. That's basicaly what your 'embarrased' defence does but if they come back with the documents now you'll have to apply to amend, so if you want to be upperhanded then ask for directions.

I understand it is stressful and frustrating - people can only try and help you as much as they can xx

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

They cannot enforce without the documents so you need to get the court to say - OI ! GIVE US YOUR DOCUMENTS ! - basically If they then don't comply with the Judges directions they can be struck out, if they do at least you can make a proper decision on defending or admission/offer. That's basicaly what your 'embarrased' defence does but if they come back with the documents now you'll have to apply to amend, so if you want to be upperhanded then ask for directions.

I understand it is stressful and frustrating - people can only try and help you as much as they can xx

Got a letter from the court today in response to my enq into how to get permission to counter claim.

they said apply through the n form route.

So today I have done that asking for full disclosure and permission to counter claim.

Will update when I have a reply.

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

ok quick update and some advice please.

The court have got my application and are processing it as I write. They said the judge will look at it and I should hear within 10 days? does this mean it will be stayed pending that? I paid the £45 quid fee as well because the ladt said the judge wouldnt want a hearing.

Secondly the mediation service called today to arrange a conference call for friday. I won't be there so my wife will have to do it. I have written the below as a brief summary of what has happened up to now as a crib sheet to her as she gets a bit confused.

Can you let me know what you think and any other points worth mentioning.

MEDIATION MAIN POINTS OF ISSUE.

1. THERE IS NO ACKNOWLEDGEMENT OF ANY DEBT OWED TO VANQUIS OR LOWELLS IF THE CONVERSATION IS DISCLOSABLE TO THE COURT.
2. THIS ACCOUNT WAS TAKEN OUT VIA A LEAFLET IN MAY 2006.
3. WHEN I SUFFERED A MISCARRIAGE,AND LOST MY JOB DUE TO THIS, I CONTACTED VANQUIS ON 3 OCCASSIONS TO STRSS MY FAMILY WERE IN FINICIAL HARDSHIP. THESE LETTERS WERE DATED 19/06/2009, 30/06/2009 AND 15/07/2009. (I HAVE COPIES)
4. VANQUIS FAILED TO ANSWER ANY LETTER AS THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DO WITH CASES OF FININCIAL HARDSHIP.
5. THEY DID HOWEVER CONTINUE TO TELEPHONE MY HOME DESPITE BEING ASKED NOT TO DO SO.

6. I BECAME WORRIED THAT MY RIGHTS AS A CUSTOMER WERE BEING IGNORED.
7. ON 19/08/2009 I REQUESTED A COPY OF MY CREDIT AGREEMENT UNDER THE CONSUMER CREDIT ACT.

8. THEY ARE REQUIRED ON RECEIPT OF SUCH A REQUEST TO PROVIDE; a copy of the agreement, copies of the other documents mentioned in the agreement and a statement of account.
9. THEY SENT A SHEET OF PAPER THAT WAS A COPY OF THEIR TERMS AND CONDITIONS. IT HAD NO NAME, ADDRESS, DATE OF BIRTH, ACCOUNT NUMBER ETC. IT DID NOT EVEN STATE WHAT DATE THESE TERMS WERE RELEVENT TO.
10. THEY WERE,AND STILL ARE ,IN BREACH OF THE REQUEST AND SHOULD NOT BE MAKING ANY ATTEMPT TO ENFORCE THIS AGREEMENT WITHOUT HAVING FIRST SATISFIED THAT REQUEST.
11. VANQUIS HAVE THEN SOLD ON THIS ACCOUNT TO LOWELLS.
12. LOWELLS HAVE PASSED THIS TO THEIR SOLICTORS DRYDENS FAIRFAX
13. THEY HAVE ISSUED THIS CLAIM
14. SINCE ISSUING THE CLAIM I HAVE MADE A SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST UNDER THE DATA PROTECTION ACT TO VANQUIS AND LOWELLS.
15. THE VANQUIS RESPONSE SHOWED ALL DOCUMENTS HELD ON COMPUTER REGARDING THIS ACCOUNT. IT SHOWED THAT VANQUIS HAVE NO CREDIT AGREEMENT, NO DATA REGARDING A CREDIT AGREEMENT, NO RECORD OF MY LETTERS, ANY LETTERS TO ME, NO DEFAULT NOTICE (AS REQUIRED BY THE ACT) NO RECORD OF ASSIGNMENT TO LOWELLS. THEIR ACCOUNT RECORDS ALSO SHOWED A NUMBER OF PENALTY CHARGES LEVELLED AGAINST THIS ACCOUNT AND WHEN THESE ARE ADDED TOGETHER AND INTEREST APPLIED THEY TOTALED APPROX £2500.
16. MY SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST TO LOWELLS SHOWED, NO CREDIT AGREEMENT ON FILE, NO DEFAULT NOTICE ISSUED, NO DEED OF ASSIGNMENT GIVING THE TITLE TO COLLECT ANY MONEY
17. EITHER THESE RESPONSES SHOW THAT NEITHER PARTY HAS A VALID CREDIT AGREEMENT, RENDERING THIS ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO SEC 127 OF THE CCA 1974 AND ENTIRELY UNENFORCABLE (THE DATE OF THIS ACCOUNTS OPENING DOES NOT MEAN IT IS COVERED BY THE AMMENDMENTS TO THE CCA 2006) OR LOWELLS AND VANQUIS HAVE WITHHELD INFORMATION FROM ME WHICH IS AN OFFENCE UNDER THE DATA PROTECTION ACT.
18. ON RECEIPT OF THE SUMMONS I SENT A CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES DISCLOSURE REQUEST TO DRYDENS SOLICTORS. THEY ARE REQUIRED TO DISCLOSE ANY DOCUMENT WHICH THEY MENTION IN THEIR PARTICULARS OF CLAIM TO THE OTHER PARTY INVOLVED (ME).
19. I ASKED AGAIN FOR A COPY OF THE CREDIT AGREEMENT, A STATEMENT OF ACCOUNT, A COPY OF A VALID DEFAULT NOTICE AND THE DEED OF ASSIGNMENT TO LOWELLS. ALL THESE WERE MENTIONED IN THE PARTICULARS OF CLAIM. I ALSO ASKED FOR A CLEAR STATEMENT FROM LOWELLS AS TO WETHER THIS AGREEMENT WAS ENFORCEABLE. THE OFT INSIST THAT FIRMS SHOULD NOT MAKE MISLEADING STATEMNTS, OR ACTIONS, TO INFLUENCE A CUSTOMER INTO BELIEVING AN AGREEMENT IS ENFORCABLE WHEN IT IS NOT.
20. THIS REQUEST WAS SENT RECORDED DELIVERY. THEY HAVE FAILED TO SUPPLY THESE DOCUMENTS EVEN TO THIS DATE. THIS IS IN BREACH OF THE CIVIL PROCEDURE RULES AND THE OFT GUIDELINES.
21. I HAVE APPLIED TO THE COURT FOR AN ORDER TO BE MADE OUT REQUIRING THESE DOCUMENTS TO BE DISCLOSED TO ME WITHIN 14 DAYS OR THE CLAIM TO BE STRUCK OUT. I HAVE ALSO ASKED FOR PERMISSION OF THE COURT TO FILE A COUNTER CLAIM AGAINST LOWELLS AND VANQIUS (IT IS UNCERTAIN WHO IS THE LAWFUL OWNER OF THIS DEBT) FOR RETURN OF ALL PENALTY CHRGES AND INTEREST AS CHARGED BY VANQUIS AT THERE CURRENT INTEREST RATE.
22. I HAVE NEVER TRIED TO CLAIM ANY MONEY FROM VANQUIS AND JUST WISHED TO BE TREATED FAIRLY BY THE BANK AND THEIR AGENTS WHEN I ORIGINALLY MADE THEM AWARE OF MY CIRCUMSTANCES. THEY HAVE IGNORED THESE PLEAS AND MASSIVELY ABUSED THE ACT THEY NOW SEEK TO USE AS ENFORCEMENT AGAINST ME.
23. I PERSONALLY WOULD BE HAPPY FOR BOTH SIDES TO CALL IT QUITS AND WALK AWAY FROM THIS AS THE DISPUTED MONEY IS ALMOST EQUAL AND I DO NOT WISH THE TRAUMA OF EARLIER EVENTS BEING RELIVED. HOWEVER IF THIS IS NOT POSSIBLE I INTEND TO USE THE LAW THEY HAVE ABUSED TO ENSURE THE ACCOUNT IS DEEMED UNENFORCABLE AND MY PENALTY CHRGES ARE RETURNED.

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

:santa_smiley:

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

:santa_smiley:

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

Looking at the statement above, which, IMHO is rather long and not to easy to read due to it being typed up all in CAPS, there is one point that stands out: You mention you applied for the card via a leaflet in 2006. You then go on to say that you have made numerous requests for your agreement and it has never been provided, could it be because there wasn't one in the first place? I can't tell you the answer, but 2006 wasn't that long ago and you may have some recollection.

You may have just filled in an application form and never signed an agreement containing all the prescribed terms, if that's the case, that's the assertion you'll need to make. You may want to look at this case for reference: http://legalbeagles.info/wp-content/...Bachellier.pdf

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

Hi,

cheers for that. Sorry about the CAPS . It was all typed in a hurry, dont worry it isnt the witness statement for court but just a crib sheet for the mediation which never happened.

The lady rang me and lowells and I explained the points at issue and that an application from me was before the judge for full disclosure and a counter claim. She said the judge was looking at it and 'may' grant a stay but his directions already gave orders for disclosure so he may say no. I pointed out that they ordered disclosure 15 days before the hearing, which is the 19th december and it was now the 6th and I still didnt have ANY paperwork at all from the claimants and she said 'oh'

We all agreed that it was pointless trying to mediate on something that no one had any documentation on and went our seprate ways. She did state that she would let the court know that both parties are willing to mediate again if the stay is allowed and the documents supplied. She even said if the stay wasn't allowed she would try and mediate again at late notice and would make sure the judge knew I was happy to do so.

Now I guess it's a waiting game to see what the DJ says. I cant send any disclousure as I don't know what they are claiming officially as I have no documents.

getting a bit nervous as to what to do if the judge doesn't stay

Geoff

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

Ok,

don't know what to do now. received a letter today from the court saying that they are having a hearing for my application on the 13th December1

there is no way I can get the day off at that short notice but I imagine that the other side, being solictors , will be there.

So thats probably it then.

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

ok... Not getting much help but will continue posting for those who are fighting lowells and may need some help.

Went to court... well heres what happened

1. took the day off work. Turn up with the wife(is her debt)
2. Met by a chinless wonder form a local firm hired by drydens.
3. He says' dont worry Im not going to oppose the application
4. I point out that I can't see how he can as drydens disclosure arrived 6 days late and thats has given me 6 days to prepare a defence after asking them for disclosure 36 months ago.
5. go into court. Judge was quite nice but di8dn't have much sympathy. drydens bloke immediatly says he is opposing any stay (lying little...) but I guessed he would. Judge says he agrees with him!!!!!! judge then asks what i want and i tell him. Time to prepare defence . full disclosure and permission to counter claim
6. Judge says counter claim not needed as I can dispute the amount and if they agree it will be knocked off the balance. Judge then says the penalty charge thing wont work as £12 is reasonable and I wont win that. I point out the OFT dont agree that it should 'be standard practice to set charges at this level' as the drydens sol says in his statement and the the DJ says ' good luck with that but you wont win'.
7. Judge then says do I need a stay for defence. I say yes. He says 'have you now got all the docs you need? dydens bloke smiles , I say 'no I still havent got the default notice' , drydens bloke stops smiling. judge says 'where is it?' drydens bloke says ' ermmm we cant find it..we have been looking' judge says ' oh dear...well you can't poss win without it... stayed till 4th of january..if default notice not served by 4pm case will be struck out'... drydens bloke looks annoyed...' judge then says ' even if they find it I assume that you will be stating you never got it as its not in there SAR or the account log'...I say yes... drydens bloke looks green.

So it looks like drydens are in the poop.... no dn no case... even if one appears no proof it was ever sent so judge seems to think its unwinnable for them...

See what happens now.......

[finlander]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

By the way... drydens did ambush me ... 7 days before court with all their paperwork.... The credit agreement is one of there excel spread sheets, personal details are wrong and NO click box to accept agreement.

They have made up a credit agreement to make it look like an internet application so that a paper one becomes enforcable as a digital signtaure.

[ODC]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

Well done

[EXC]

Re: Lowell / Vanquis Court Claim

1. Judge says counter claim not needed as I can dispute the amount and if they agree it will be knocked off the balance. Judge then says the penalty charge thing wont work as £12 is reasonable and I wont win that. I point out the OFT dont agree that it should 'be standard practice to set charges at this level' as the drydens sol says in his statement and the the DJ says ' good luck with that but you wont win'.

For what it's worth, which probably isn't much, the OFT's threshold figure of £12 wasn't based on what they thought was reasonable but ''which as a matter of administrative priority we would be unlikely to intervene''. See attached Restricted Policy doc, albeit heavily redacted.