Ernest Wilson

[CYNthesys]

I remember seeing caselaw a while ago about something similar, will try and find it.

If my memory serves me well a property was sold privately, without any introduction from the estate agent who the seller had originally instructed, and the estate agent was not entitled to be paid

[White_Rhino]

Re: Ernest Wilson Debt

http://www.nfopp.co.uk/media/221848/...co_limited.pdf note more recent date NB have copied this in case it disappears!:_thedoctor__by_GuyF

I would like a copy if you still have this

[Danyork01]

Hi I have had my business on the market with Ernest Wilson since we were presdured into signing it at the end of August last year. After reading the contract further we bitterly regretted. We are a small tea room in York. They could only come in the middle of a busy lunchtime and we signed it without reading the contract properly. We bitterly regretted it. They haven't taken any ID from us to do any checks. Also on our sellers copy of the Terms of Business we haven't signed it and neither have them. We have now received an invoice for £996. The invoice has no terms of payment on it either. We now feel we were conned into the contract and would love to tell them where to go. Can anyone help? Thanks Dan

[Amethyst]

Skye1 - has something happened with regards your case ? It always best to obtain independent legal advice of course, Cebta exist, so far as I am aware, to try and support and guide those who have been unable to get more formal advice.

[EW Client]

I don't know if you're referring to me, but my name isn't Stuart and I have no connection with EW apart from as a former client.

[Skye1]

No comment, sorry Stuart !

[EW Client]

Can you elaborate on your comment please Skye1?

[Skye1]

Do not use cebta get independent legal advice

[EW Client]

Re: Ernest Wilson

@Amethyst - as you've mentioned, RTA v Bracewell was about the agent not being registered when the contract was signed (paragraph 44 in the judgment). It looks like a complaint to HMRC is definitely called for though, if it's believed that an agent isn't complying with the terms of registration.

Another area of business transfer agent operations their clients have expressed dissatisfaction with is the quality of marketing materials used, so this is an interesting read:
£1.3m in ill-gotten gains seized from Derby-based advertising fraudsters

...using improper pressure sales methods to induce customers into agreeing to buy advertisement that were mis-sold or of poor quality.

[EW Client]

Re: Ernest Wilson

I'll ask a friend who is more au fait with MLR compliance and update later. Have you contacted a solicitor Skye1?

[Amethyst]

Re: Ernest Wilson

Grrrrr. Good for you sticking up for yourself against them. Sadly this sounds like a similar experience to a number of other EW Clients. Have a look at CEBTA http://www.cebta.org.uk/

[MENTION=46756]EW Client[/MENTION];

I don't know if it is a legal obligation - I know EW are registered for money laundering with HMRC - and Money Laundering regs require due diligence ( checking you are who you say you are and that you have authority to enter into the contract etc ) but I don't believe that would invalidate the contract ( because you are who you say you are, and did have the authority, basically ) although a complaint could be made to HMRC I think.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2...ulation/5/made

Meaning of customer due diligence measures

5. “Customer due diligence measures” means—

(a)identifying the customer and verifying the customer’s identity on the basis of documents, data or information obtained from a reliable and independent source;

(b)identifying, where there is a beneficial owner who is not the customer, the beneficial owner and taking adequate measures, on a risk-sensitive basis, to verify his identity so that the relevant person is satisfied that he knows who the beneficial owner is, including, in the case of a legal person, trust or similar legal arrangement, measures to understand the ownership and control structure of the person, trust or arrangement; and

(c)obtaining information on the purpose and intended nature of the business relationship.

Actually just reading through some CEBTA stuff they also say

Some Agents do not carry out the full checks as to who are the Beneficial Owners of the business or property, plus personal identity checks (e.g. a passport or driving licence) on the same-said owners BEFORE commencing the business relationship, i.e. before the contract is signed. This is a lack of "Customer Due Diligence" and many judges have ruled the contract unenforceable because of this - after all, it would be in the Agent's interests to check that they are dealing with an authorised signatory to the document they call an 'agreement'. See The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 s5, 7, 9 and 11.

There has been a High Court case - RTA v Bracewell - successfully defended by Mr Bracewell, which rested on RTA's failure to Register but that only applies to RTA documents signed before 2nd November 2012. See http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/QB/2015/630.html

so could be worth investigating further

[Skye1]

Re: Ernest Wilson

I'd expect they need to take ID to ensure you are the legal business owner and are entitled to sell it ? Potentially they'd need to be sure of your identity to satisfy Money Laundering regs.

What's the nightmare with EW ?

Back in January their sales rep visited my business as I wanted a rough idea on its value as i was thinking of selling it, to cut a long story short he made me feel pressured to sign and didn't explain that the contract cannot be cancelled for 6 months or that I would be liable for any fees if there was no sale.

When the photos were being taken I got very emotional, in my opinion the rep should have stopped but he just carried on.

I asked them to withdraw my business from sale soon after it wasn't even marketed for 7 days, which was only on their website, it never got as far as sending them ID to prove that I was the business owner, no fixtures or fittings list was done and we don't have an EPC certificate.

I was Interrogated on the phone by Stuart Moorhouse who reduced me to tears (accusing me of already finding a buyer) then said if your business isn't sold privately in 6 months you won't be liable for any fees, I have a witness to that conversation as it was on loudspeaker in the car.

6 months have passed and I have a bill for £876 for marketing and advertising costs even though my business was withdrawn from sale, they're trying to make me pay for two adverts but yet cannot provide proof that they actually happened at a cost of £100 and have told me to contact the newspapers to find out myself.

I've offered them a goodwill gesture of £200 which they've refused and are issuing a court summons in 14 days, I've contacted the The Property Ombudsman and will be sending in all the letters etc.

I've had to ask for their formal complaint procedure which they've sent me but Stuart Moorhouse is in control of that so it's pointless even bothering, he's made his position very clear and is unwilling to negotiate.

Stuart Moorhouse is now denying what he said and has become very persistent and patronising with his letters.

It was never explained that the contract cannot be cancelled and I'd still be liable for fees if I withdrew my business from sale, I feel I've been seriously misled.

I feel like I've been conned, County Court does not scare me as it's wrong what they are doing and I want a judge to listen to this situation , I've found so many bad reviews from their previous customers reporting of similar and it looks like a huge scam.

Do they have a legal obligation to check ID before they start to market a business, as it could be anyone trying to sell it.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[Amethyst]

Re: Ernest Wilson

I'd expect they need to take ID to ensure you are the legal business owner and are entitled to sell it ? Potentially they'd need to be sure of your identity to satisfy Money Laundering regs.

What's the nightmare with EW ?

[Skye1]

Re: Ernest Wilson

Is that correct that ID must be taken before EW can market your business?
I'm having a nightmare with EW at the moment

[Skye1]

Re: Ernest Wilson

Is that correct ID must be taken before they can market your business ?

I'm having a nightmare with Ernest Wilson at the moment