LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

[Frustrated59]

Hi Guys,
I'll try and keep this brief but it has been going on for 11 years yes 11 years!
During 2002 I took out a loan with Lloyds TSB to bring my ageing farther to London from Cornwall.
For the first year everything was fine then I lost my job and couldn't afford the payments.
I entered into a number of payment agreements with Lloyds TSB for a reduce monthly payment all of which they broke without notifying me.
During 2007 I requested a statement of the loan account which I didn't receive so by 2009 I stopped making payments after they broke the payment agreement again.
I continued to ask for a statement of the account which Lloyds TSB didn't provide.
Lloyds TSB then passed the debt on to a number of collection agencies one after the other 6/7 or so all of them unable to provide me with an account statement.
I took my complaint to the FOS in 2012 and they said that Lloyds TSB had done nothing wrong I questioned their findings:

• Unable to provide an account statement for over 5 years
• Financial damage they had done to me through credit agencies
• Constant harassment from debt collecting agency when the account was in dispute

But there seems to be no real route to appeal the FOS findings.

Lloyds TSB have now sold this debt to Lowell Portfolio 1 and they are starting the process all over again but this time for the first time Lloyds TSB wrote to me informing me that they had sold the debt on.

I have advised them that this account is in dispute with Lloyds TSB and how can they purchase a disputed account?

I am frustrated and angry that Lloyds just seem to be able to do what they like with little or no redress.

They have broken the law on a number of occasion:

• Trying to make me take out another loan to pay off the first
• Passing the disputed account to debt collection agencies
• Their agents demanding payment immediately
• Threatening debt collector visits and CCJ's

Now I find that the debt has been sold to Lowell and it's starting all over again.

Can anyone please advise me what I can do?

[labman]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

I would send them this. It may need a little editing as it is a generic template:

Account Sold While In Dispute

Dear Sir,


Your Ref: Account No XXXXXXXX


Thank you for your letter dated dd/mm/yyyy, the contents of which have been noted.


I write with reference to the above numbered account. I would like to point out that this account is formally in dispute with [Enter Original Creditor] and has been since they failed to acknowledge my Consumer Credit Agreement (CCA) Request, in line with s.77-s.79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.


As you aware, your continual harassment not only breaches the Consumer Credit Act (1974), but also the Data Protection Act (1998), the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations (2008) and the Office Of Fair Trading's Debt Collection Guidelines.

Similarly, in line with recent OFT Guidance surrounding Unenforceability, I presume you will be aware, the OFT has stipulated the following:

Sections 77-79 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 outline the information creditors must provide to debtors under fixed-term, running account & Hire Agreements. Under these sections a debtor can pay £1 to get:

• a copy of their agreement
• copies of some of the other documents mentioned in their agreement
• a statement of account.

If this information is not provided within 12 working days the debt becomes unenforceable. This means a creditor cannot:

• make the debtor pay the debt before they're supposed to
• get a court judgment against the debtor

As this account is clearly unenforceable, I would ask that you to write back confirming that no further action will be taken and the account is now closed.
No further correspondence will be entered into until such time as you supply a compliant agreement. In the meantime, I ask that you clarify your position on this point, as failure to do so, even by omission or lack of a response, will be regarded as an attempt to deliberately misrepresent or conceal the legal position regarding this matter, resulting in a complaint to the OFT.


Yours faithfully,


[IMG]file:///C:\Users\Home\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\c lip_image001.jpg[/IMG]


Print Name




In the bit above 'Print Name' I put the following anti tamper strip:

[Frustrated59]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

Thank you so much for your help.

[Frustrated59]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

Labman hi,
Sorry just one more thing should I enclose a cheque for £1???
Thank you again

[labman]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

No, all you're doing here is telling them that the original creditor had failed to supply your agreement under your s78 request, so you had disputed this, and the original creditor then passed the account on while you were / are still in dispute with them.

Does that make sense?

So you know where you stand, the original creditor is allowed to do this. It's frowned on as not being good practice, but it is legal. You're pointing out to the new owner of the debt what the situation is, and asking them to close the account. The chances of them doing this are slight, but equally until they comply with your s78 request, the account is UE.

Are you aware what it being unenforceable means? :beagle:

[Frustrated59]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

Labman hi,

Firstly thank you for your help so far.

I have now received a response from Lowell.

They inform me that they have been in touch with Lloyds for a copy of the credit agreement which once retrieved they will send on.

They also tell me that once I receive my agreement they will be expecting payment in full.

Now this all seems a bit odd to me.... I tried to close my old Lloyds TSB account but was told that I couldn't due to this outstanding loan being attached to the account so I withdrew all my funds except a few pounds and left the account open.

Both Lloyds and Lowell have written to me advising that the debt is now assigned to Lowell if that is the case why can't I close the Lloyds account?

Plus I've been requesting a statement for this loan account for over 5 years how can Lloyds get away with this?

I'm guessing unenforceable means that without the paperwork to prove the debt they can't enforce payment and if that is the case how long before this whole fiasco is well and truly berried?

Regards

[Frustrated59]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

Labman Hi,

They have now recorded this on Experian on my credit file which is once again causing me problems getting a mortgage.
Is there anything I can do to get it removed as they still haven't provided me with any details?
Thank you

[labman]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

Is what they are reporting accurate?

Have you received a reply to the letter yet?

Unenforceable means it is UE in a court of law until such time as they provide the agreement. That does not mean they are not allowed to ask you to repay the money, but without an agreement, they can't do a lot if you choose not to.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

They have now recorded this on Experian on my credit file which is once again causing me problems getting a mortgage.
Is there anything I can do to get it removed as they still haven't provided me with any details?

They are entitled to report to the CRAs even if the account is unenforceable due to failure to supply a copy of your agreement, the purpose of a CCA request is to assess the potential for enforcement and/or challenge the account on those basis, as well as covering yourself against possible legal action. It is not to get the entries removed from your credit file. In McGuffick v RBS, Mr Justice Flaux stated that reporting to the CRAs does not constitute enforcement.

Mr Justice Flaux concluded that not only did reporting to the various CRAs not amount to enforcement, but that a number of other activities did not constitute enforcement either, such as:

• reporting to CRAs without also telling them that the agreement is currently unenforceable
• disseminating or threatening to disseminate the debtor's personal data in respect of the agreement to any third party
• demanding payment from the debtor
• issuing a default notice to the debtor
• threatening legal action
• instructing a third party to demand payment or otherwise to seek to procure payment
• bringing proceedings.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but it's not very likely you'll be able to obtain a mortgage if you have defaulted on your accounts.

[Amethyst]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

When you say Lloyds broke the agreement on your payment arrangements - what do you mean ?

[Frustrated59]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

Hi,

Lloyds filed that the account had been settled Lowell have put the account back on Experian as default which I don't understand as I have agreement to pay Lowell anything at this time.

And yes they have responded (3 Times) to the mail you told me to send which I included the £1 fee.

They inform me that they have been in touch with Lloyds for a copy of the credit agreement which once retrieved they will send on.

They also tell me that once I receive my agreement they will be expecting payment in full.

I know that Lloyds have a bad copy of the agreement but have not been able to produce any payment accounts or any other details.

[Frustrated59]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

We agreed a number of payment plans when I was out of work for reduced amounts to be paid but Lloyds would increase the amount after a couple of months causing the DD to bounce and put the loan back in to default.

[labman]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

Hi,

And yes they have responded (3 Times) to the mail you told me to send which I included the £1 fee.

I can't see any post here which advises you to send mail enclosing a £1 fee. You have not done a S78 request, but they appear to have taken it as such. I would be tempted, as it was a loan, presumably regulated by the CCA, to send off a CCA request, purely because the formal legal argument moves more in your favour if they cannot provide a legible agreement, the T&C's at the time of inception and a statement of account.



They inform me that they have been in touch with Lloyds for a copy of the credit agreement which once retrieved they will send on.

That's fine, but see above.

They also tell me that once I receive my agreement they will be expecting payment in full.

Not if you do a S78 request and they can't fully comply with that they won't!

I know that Lloyds have a bad copy of the agreement but have not been able to produce any payment accounts or any other details.

They'd need a Statement of Account for a S78. It looks as though that's the way to go.

I'm slightly puzzled over the £1 mail you stated you'd been told to send earlier on in the thread. I don't see that been suggested anywhere.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

I can't see any post here which advises you to send mail enclosing a £1 fee. You have not done a S78 request, but they appear to have taken it as such. I would be tempted, as it was a loan, presumably regulated by the CCA, to send off a CCA request, purely because the formal legal argument moves more in your favour if they cannot provide a legible agreement, the T&C's at the time of inception and a statement of account.

I'm slightly puzzled over the £1 mail you stated you'd been told to send earlier on in the thread. I don't see that been suggested anywhere.

I see you suggested sending a letter putting the account in dispute due to non-compliance with a s.78 request on post 2: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...507#post373507 :noidea:

...and you are saying the OC failed to supply an agreement under their CCA request:

No, all you're doing here is telling them that the original creditor had failed to supply your agreement under your s78 request, so you had disputed this, and the original creditor then passed the account on while you were / are still in dispute with them.

I don't see how it can be argued that they haven't complied with a s.77-79 CCA request when no such request has been made. :confused2:

My take on this is that Lowell probably have no idea whether a CCA request had previously been sent to Lloyds or not, and they are going to contact them and ask them for the documents.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: LloydsTSB/Lowell Portfolio 1

And yes they have responded (3 Times) to the mail you told me to send which I included the £1 fee.

They inform me that they have been in touch with Lloyds for a copy of the credit agreement which once retrieved they will send on.

They also tell me that once I receive my agreement they will be expecting payment in full.

Normally you wouldn't send the account in dispute letter when no CCA request has been sent - a CCA request to Lowell would have been in order here, however, Lowell have replied saying they are requesting the documents from Lloyds, so it's probably best to wait for their response, rather than hitting them with a CCA request at this point. If they come back saying Lloyds have no record of such a request, then you should send one.
If they send you any documents, do post them up here. :typing:

I know that Lloyds have a bad copy of the agreement but have not been able to produce any payment accounts or any other details.

How do you know that? :confused2: