Paypal.

[ploddingon]

About 10 years ago an American fraudster bought some memory sticks off me on Ebay. I thought it was really odd at the time, as I couldn't figure out why an American would want to pay postage to ship over memory sticks from the U.K. when they were cheaper in the U.S. to begin with. I sent the item international recorded delivery, thinking I would be covered, and he got his memory sticks. He then tried to do a chargeback, saying that the sticks hadn't shown up, but I protested to Ebay and they found in my favour. He then appealed again and they ultimately found in his favour. Even though Royal Mail confirmed delivery to me on the telephone the Paypal rules at the time said that the item had to be trackable online. Absolutely insane considering I could have got something off Royal Mail in writing stating that the item had been delivered, but that's what happened. Every once in a while I get an annoying debt collector asking for the money. I tell them that I still have the recorded delivery receipt, I still do, and to take me to court if they want to. I have never paid anything towards the debt and never acknowledged the debt. They go away and then a new gang show up. I haven't had anyone hassle me lately, but want to deal with this once and for all. I am not even sure whether Paypal even paid the guy or not. I do know my account has been in negative balance for the relevant amount since the incident occurred. However, isn't it the case that Paypal only refund 'after' they recover the money themselves? I think that's their rule anyway. As I was suspicious at the time I didn't send the sticks until the Paypal money was safely in my hands. I am never ever going to pay a penny towards this fraud. If Paypal haven't paid the man can I declare statute barred and get the negative balance taken off my Paypal account so I can use it again? Even if Paypal have paid him can I still do the same? I am happy to persevere for as long as it takes. Ideally I would like to be able to access the Paypal account again, though I hate the company and rarely use the service. It's just that Ebay, which I also rarely use, now try and force you to offer Paypal as a payment method. So much for adults and personal choice!

[ploddertom]

Re: Paypal.

I would suspect this is Statute Barred.

[MissFM]

Re: Paypal.

Sorry Ploddington, can't help with your question and a little off thread - but why do you hate PayPal? Asking because for some reason I feel safer using them but am (relatively) commercially naive, especially as regards the internet and wondered if you would mind explaining the pitfalls, only if you have time?

With thanks FM

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

I would suspect this is Statute Barred.

It must be, but is there any hope of getting the account back if they never paid the fraudster? Would they be obliged to give me this information?

Sorry Ploddington, can't help with your question and a little off thread - but why do you hate PayPal? Asking because for some reason I feel safer using them but am (relatively) commercially naive, especially as regards the internet and wondered if you would mind explaining the pitfalls, only if you have time? With thanks FM

I hate them because of the way they have treated me. I could have got something in writing stating that the item had been delivered and they just didn't want to bother wasting time on me. I hate them because they think they are above the law (my opinion). I hate them because they are operating an illegal monopoly in tandem with Ebay, who now own them, and are trying to force people to use their service. Our pathetic government just tolerates the situation as it keeps the coffers ticking over. I hate them because they go out of their way to make it look like people are protected when they are not. Money is only recoverable if it is still in the account you are trying to recover from, as evidenced by a Which? magazine investigation a couple of years ago and admitted to by senior Paypal representative Rob Skinner. What fraudster is going to leave their money in a Paypal account after committing fraud? Maybe Paypal do pay out on occasion when not obliged to, I don't know and would dearly love to see all the statistics (some hope), but I clearly see Paypal as a giant, monopolistic, fake insurance scam. I think they are skilled in the art of deceit and I don't think they give a damn about any of their account holders. I really do hate the company, which ultimately means I hate the people who form the company policy. Evil and solely subservient to the dirty dollar, which is a big reason why the world is in such a mess. Rant over.

[labman]

Re: Paypal.

Ploddingon and Ploddertom - how confusing! lol

I agree with PT that it will be Statute Barred, BUT, remember this does not mean the debt doesn't exist. It means purely that it cannot be enforced through the courts. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with people asking you to pay it, just as there is nothing wrong with you telling them politely to go away. Sadly, it is one of those things you may have to put up with until they can find no further DCA's to pass it on to.

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

Ploddingon and Ploddertom - how confusing! lol

I agree with PT that it will be Statute Barred, BUT, remember this does not mean the debt doesn't exist. It means purely that it cannot be enforced through the courts. There is nothing wrong whatsoever with people asking you to pay it, just as there is nothing wrong with you telling them politely to go away. Sadly, it is one of those things you may have to put up with until they can find no further DCA's to pass it on to.

I have been off the scene for a while after recovering from years of hell. Wasn't there some OFT guidance which stated that if a debtor formally declared the debt statute barred and stated that they wouldn't be paying it in writing, then the owner of the debt should cease pursuing it? I could well be wrong, but thought I read it somewhere.

[MissFM]

Re: Paypal.

It must be, but is there any hope of getting the account back if they never paid the fraudster? Would they be obliged to give me this information?







I hate them because of the way they have treated me. I could have got something in writing stating that the item had been delivered and they just didn't want to bother wasting time on me. I hate them because they think they are above the law (my opinion). I hate them because they are operating an illegal monopoly in tandem with Ebay, who now own them, and are trying to force people to use their service. Our pathetic government just tolerates the situation as it keeps the coffers ticking over. I hate them because they go out of their way to make it look like people are protected when they are not. Money is only recoverable if it is still in the account you are trying to recover from, as evidenced by a Which? magazine investigation a couple of years ago and admitted to by senior Paypal representative Rob Skinner. What fraudster is going to leave their money in a Paypal account after committing fraud? Maybe Paypal do pay out on occasion when not obliged to, I don't know and would dearly love to see all the statistics (some hope), but I clearly see Paypal as a giant, monopolistic, fake insurance scam. I think they are skilled in the art of deceit and I don't think they give a damn about any of their account holders. I really do hate the company, which ultimately means I hate the people who form the company policy. Evil and solely subservient to the dirty dollar, which is a big reason why the world is in such a mess. Rant over.

Thank you Ploddington - I had no idea. Yet another example of some very cunning stunts indeed.

[labman]

Re: Paypal.

You are right, BUT (always a BUT isn't there), while they may stop collecting it, if they choose to abide by what are only guidelines, not legislation, there is nothing to stop them selling it on to a new owner.

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

You are right, BUT (always a BUT isn't there), while they may stop collecting it, if they choose to abide by what are only guidelines, not legislation, there is nothing to stop them selling it on to a new owner.

Are Paypal obliged to respond to DSAR's if they won't freely tell me what I want to know? If they never paid the fraudster (key point), are confident that I did nothing immoral and get a statute barred notice from myself in writing, then I hope that they might remove the negative balance from my account. After all, it can only benefit them if I start using the account again.

[labman]

Re: Paypal.

I would imagine they have to respond to a SAR.

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

I would imagine they have to respond to a SAR.

I remember the debate a few years back where no one seemed to know who was responsible for regulating Paypal. I think that the simple answer was precisely no one. I'll give it a go then.

On the statute barred issue, have you actually heard of any specific cases where creditors have continued to pursue payment after a debtor has issued a statute barred notice and formally declared that they won't be paying the debt in writing? I would imagine that creditors want to be seen to be following OFT guidance, I know some companies would likely flout it if they thought they could go undetected, and on something as clear cut as this they couldn't really hide. Moreover, what company would want to buy a debt, for however little, that had been formally declared statute barred with no intent to pay in writing? Unless a few of them tried selling these accounts on between themselves for £1 or something like that, which would certainly still breach the OFT guidance and generate a lot of bad press for them.

[labman]

Re: Paypal.

Loads of creditors ignore OFT Guidelines unfortunately, and yes, I've known of loads. Once it's pointed out that a debt is SB though, they realise you know your rights and that there is little point in pursuing you normally. They then just sell it down the line again - madness, but there we go. I guess some people pay, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Paypal.

I would imagine they have to respond to a SAR.

They can probably circumvent the DPA by being based abroad. eBay are neither registered as a company nor do they host their sites or process data in the UK, I think their European operations are based in Luxemburg. Paypal and eBay are one and the same, eBay actually own PayPal -> http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/pay/paypal-and-ebay.html

[ploddingon]

Re: Paypal.

Loads of creditors ignore OFT Guidelines unfortunately, and yes, I've known of loads. Once it's pointed out that a debt is SB though, they realise you know your rights and that there is little point in pursuing you normally. They then just sell it down the line again - madness, but there we go. I guess some people pay, otherwise they wouldn't do it.

I have some statute barred debts that I haven't yet declared as statute barred with no intent to pay in writing. I will experiment in the next few months and see what happens. I find, from experience, that how well you word your letters and how persistent you are does usually pay off. For example, I will force them to acknowledge in writing that they are fully self-aware they will breaking OFT guidance by continuing to harass me, authorising someone else to harass me or by selling the debt on. If they refuse to answer my questions, then I will go to the regulator. All a bit tedious, but they must answer one way or the other and i'm sure they won't want to admit it in writing. I will report back with my findings, but for now i'll get on with Paypal. For the record, I don't condone blatant debt avoidance and I just got caught up in the credit madness of the late 90's. I remortgaged my half of my property to pay off what I could and am just doing my best to stay in the black. If I ever pay any of my old debts back it will be to my original creditors and not the stinky DCA's. Thanks for all the advice and support everyone.

They can probably circumvent the DPA by being based abroad. eBay are neither registered as a company nor do they host their sites or process data in the UK, I think their European operations are based in Luxemburg. Paypal and eBay are one and the same, eBay actually own PayPal -> http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/pay/paypal-and-ebay.html

I'll give it a go and see what happens.

[CheesedOffCharlie]

Re: Paypal.

Paypal is a very dodgy company for both buyer and seller. Usually when an account is in dispute they will nearly always find in the buyers favour because of all the fraudulent sales that go on on the ebay site. They are also very dodgy for a seller, there have been lots of cases when somebody sells something and gets paid by Paypal that isnt even reported as fraud and Paypal will freeze the account unless the seller can prove silly things like proof of postage etc.. Paypal is used to secure deposits on things like deposits on renting appartments and stuff abroad.. how the hell would you post that lol. They have earned I would say thousands doing that. They set up dodgy pages to prove the transaction was legitimate, and you log in and there is nothing to select or enter any details into.. they make it so hard that sometimes people just give up, especially when its for lower amounts. Just google the Paypal scam. I do use Paypal and havent been stung to date.