Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

[andyglover63]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Hi

Is it possible to reclaim PPI on a motgage which was paid off, a business loan again paid off and 2 credit cards, both went into default in 1987, the mortgage and business loan was paid up in Feb 2001.

Thanks

AG

[Bill-K]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Great thread Di - I've never quite grasped this 'assignment' thing, so I'm following it.

AG - you should be able to reclaim mis-sold PPI on all those accounts. The account does not have to be an 'active' or open account. With regard to the defaulted credit cards, it may even be possible to show that the cards would not have been defaulted if the PPI had not been mis-sold. In many cases, it can be shown that penalty charges would not have been debited, and these can often be reclaimed as well.

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

does the fact that a DCA becomes the' data controller' confirm then that they assigment is absolute ?

That is what came to my mind Jax, as it seems they are confirming that everything is now with them, even though you can still make a compaint to the OC (Original creditor) for being liable, for example the mis selling of PPI etc....

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

That is what came to my mind Jax, as it seems they are confirming that everything is now with them, even though you can still make a compaint to the OC (Original creditor) for being liable, for example the mis selling of PPI etc....

There's a sort of logic to that, but that doesn't always mean much in this seedy world does it ? I think even if the OC has sold absolute it doesn't make them exempt from retrospectively being taken to account. and whatsmore, tackling an OC for PPI for example doesn't affect the relationship a debtor might have with the DCA.... The DCA may never know , and why should they, so even an UE situation may not be jeopordised by a claim on the OC if the DCA is dealing with the UE themselves... The exchange of personal information between the OC and the DCA would surely be forbidden under DPA. ?

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Great thread Di - I've never quite grasped this 'assignment' thing, so I'm following it.

AG - you should be able to reclaim mis-sold PPI on all those accounts. The account does not have to be an 'active' or open account. With regard to the defaulted credit cards, it may even be possible to show that the cards would not have been defaulted if the PPI had not been mis-sold. In many cases, it can be shown that penalty charges would not have been debited, and these can often be reclaimed as well.

Thank you Bill.
It's something different lol.

And because of customers not knowing who should be entitled to the refund if successful. (if there is debt/arrears) within a Debt collections agency.

As we all know - any refund will usually be forwarded to a collections agency if they work alongside a bank/business, but it the debt's sold on, it's been an issue of who the refund should be paid to.

So, now looking into this a little further.
Across the sites, it appears that refunds (where there is debt/arrears) within a DCA are being used towards that actual debt, but others - they have received their refunds direct.

It could be the fact that, if the debt was sold on, but as an "equitable assignment" which means the DCA has a right to collect the debt, but work alongside the bank/business.

Or
An "Absolute Assignment", so the old Creditor (OC) no longer has any part of the account, and the DCA owns the full rights of the account.
(In this case, the customer may receive the refund).

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Also, as someone said to me...an OC providing financial information to a fully assigned DCA doesn't get more 'personal' for the alleged debtor does it, so to say the DPA is not being breached in providing this info seems a bit of a dodgy statement to make. Is it possible to ask the DP 'people' direct questions like this ?

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

There's a sort of logic to that, but that doesn't always mean much in this seedy world does it ? I think even if the OC has sold absolute it doesn't make them exempt from retrospectively being taken to account. and whatsmore, tackling an OC for PPI for example doesn't affect the relationship a debtor might have with the DCA.... The DCA may never know , and why should they, so even an UE situation may not be jeopordised by a claim on the OC if the DCA is dealing with the UE themselves... The exchange of personal information between the OC and the DCA would surely be forbidden under DPA. ?

Interesting points there Jax.
Making a reclaim via PPI from what I know of does not affect the relationship, and you are right there is no reason why the DCA should know if this is being done, as I don't believe this part of it has anything at all to do with the DCA, as this would be the OC's liability, even if the account/debt's sold on.

I am interested to know though if the customer ended up complaining to the Financial ombudsman service (FOS) what happens there, no matter if equitable or absolute assignment.
As the FOS, will be fully aware of the debt being sold, because I assume the OC would have enclosed this information to the FOS, of when they request for the information.

I am still learning on this, so please bear with me lol. .

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Interesting points there Jax.
Making a reclaim via PPI from what I know of does not affect the relationship, and you are right there is no reason why the DCA should know if this is being done, as I don't believe this part of it has anything at all to do with the DCA, as this would be the OC's liability, even if the account/debt's sold on.

I am interested to know though if the customer ended up complaining to the Financial ombudsman service (FOS) what happens there, no matter if equitable or absolute assignment.
As the FOS, will be fully aware of the debt being sold, because I assume the OC would have enclosed this information to the FOS, of when they request for the information.

I am still learning on this, so please bear with me lol. .

It would be interesting to hear from anybody who has gone through the FOS with a complaint about refunds...or even the ICO ? otherwise you might have to wait for my case to be adjudicated on. .. Am sure you will turn something up Di through your investigations....

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Right, I set myself up here to be shot down lol, but here goes! I know some of the answers are over simplistic, but they're intended to help people learn.

Deed of assignment
Re: what is a deed of assignment?
No deed of assignment no legal standing!

In this context, the Deed of Assignment is the master document that states what is being transferred and on what terms. It is highly unlikely you will ever get to see this without using the CPR's through court to force disclosure.

I forgot to say that it looked like a recon of documents with the SDAR?
And that also during the course of it they got the accounts confused!

There is nothing wrong with them supplying recon documents. You can put them on the spot about whether or not they hold a 'True Copy' using the CPUTR letter.

I am not sure if (family friend) have requested for his copies of CCA from the DCA, now that they confirm on the letter that under the terms of this assignment, and as defined in the Data Protection Act 1998, Cabot is now the Data Controller of the personal data contained in the records of this account. I think he should and see what they come back with.

I do know he is forwarding payments by standing order to Cabot now on a monthly basis, as the account was also confirmed sold as from 3rd Sept 2012, he has been paying every month to them since then.

It would be interesting to find out wouldn't it. It's only £1.00 at the end of the day.

does the fact that a DCA becomes the' data controller' confirm then that they assigment is absolute ?

No. Every organisation has a Data Controller who is responsible for the processing of ANY data that takes place within that organisation. If more than one organisation is processing your data, more than one Data Controller will be involved.

Also, as someone said to me...an OC providing financial information to a fully assigned DCA doesn't get more 'personal' for the alleged debtor does it, so to say the DPA is not being breached in providing this info seems a bit of a dodgy statement to make. Is it possible to ask the DP 'people' direct questions like this ?

When you say the 'DP' people, to whom are you referring. If you mean the ICO, they have a very comprehensive website. The DPA itself is a very readable piece of legislation. As long as you have given permission for your data to be processed by an institution, then they can do so legally. With regards to the example you have cited, the critical issue goes back to the original question here - it depends what is written in the Deed of Assignment is my best guess.

Gosh - question time! Hope that helps a bit, and for others out there, I am well aware there are things missed out, but I could have written pages about most of the questions.

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Back a few months ago, (Family friend) complained of his PPI to Lloyds, he had 2 loans with PPI, that he was also wrongly sold, because he was disabled, and in part time self employment (he had to end up coming out of work completely - as ordered by his Doctor), it's now ended with the FOS because he was not happy with the outcome, I believe it was because even though they upheld the complaint, they were going to use the full refund plus all interest to be used towards the debt that was with the collection dept.
He did not mind them using the money for the refund, but he argued on the interest and believed he was entitled to that part of the redress.

As said above, the account/debt has been sold to Cabot, to what is worded like as if it's an absolute assignment.
So as it's now with a DCA as stated "assigned as absolute" if the FOS would give the same outcome, that included the interest to be paid to the DCA, even though its no longer with the collections dept.

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Not much said on the FOS site (refunds), but just came across this information......

when debts are sold

It is not unusual for lenders to “sell” a consumer credit debt on to another lender, or to the business that has been trying to collect the debt of their behalf. The name sometimes given to this process is assignment.
Consumers are entitled to be told when their debt is assigned, though in some of the cases that we see this has not been clearly explained to the consumer and this can lead to administrative confusion and problems.
In general terms, the new owner of the debt takes over the same rights and responsibilities as the original owner had – and this is reflected in the way that we will deal with complaints that are brought to us by consumers whose debts have been sold. So, for example, we would expect the lender to provide the same quality of evidence to support their case – whether they were the original lender, or one to whom the debt had later been assigned.

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...g-note.html#11

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Then this.......on the same link as posted in my above post......

redress

We are frequently able to settle complaints against debt collectors by informal agreement, which – if we find that the debt collector has done something wrong – may involve a payment of compensation for distress and inconvenience caused.
In some of the cases that we see, the consumer hopes to have their debt written off in settlement of their complaint of unfair behaviour by the debt collector – or believes that that is the limit of what they could ever receive. But writing off the debt is not necessarily an appropriate outcome and it is more often the case that we will recommend a suitable amount of compensation – which we will assess individually in the light of what has happened, and the actual effect on the consumer, so as to be sure that it is fair. So, compensation will not necessarily mirror the amount of the debt; it could be less, or it could be more.
Sometimes, we will decide that the compensation should be used in reduction of the consumer’s debt. In other cases, we will decide that it should be paid direct to the consumer – depending on what we consider more appropriate for that case.
Not every settlement will involve a payment of compensation. We might, for example, direct the debt collector to accept a reasonable offer of payment made by the consumer.

[jax50]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

No. Every organisation has a Data Controller who is responsible for the processing of ANY data that takes place within that organisation. If more than one organisation is processing your data, more than one Data Controller will be involved.

Okay, thanks. My OC said in the assignment letter that the DCA was now the data controller of my information...that sort of says that the OC no longer is, which by my logic means they must have done a legal assignment...otherwise how could the OC ever handle my data ? If the OC had said the DCA was also a data controller...well that would be different.. I'm assuming permission is not required from a debtor for a DCA to take on the handling of personal data..or maybe the original 'agreement' with the OC included something about giving them permission to assign on the data controlling requirement, but you still think they would ask, then we could say No, and that would confuse them wouldn't it...??

[di30]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

Labman, I shall mention to him about requesting for the CCA's, and see what happens lol, no harm done, cheers.

[labman]

Re: Debt Collection Agencies/Refunds

I'm afraid this is where my total ignorance of ppi stops me being able to answer this. If you can explain to me in simple terms how ppi works, I may be able to have a stab at answering the question.

Is ppi and integral part of a loan or a separate insurance policy?
Are all payments clearly divided into two elements - one for the loan, one for the ppi?
Is the ppi always with the same company as the loan, or does a lender act as an agent for another company?
When a loan is sold on, why is a ppi claim to the original creditor?

I think I know some of the answers,but would like to be sure - there may be more questiions then lol!