Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

[Caspar]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

They can charge you an UNPAID item for the account but they cannot charge you for using an OVERDRAFT that you are not allowed to have on the account. Caspar, there is a difference in the charges we are talking about since I am not arguing with you that you can be charged on the account but simply what you can be charged for.

I'm not arguing, I'm just stating that rightly or wrongly they paid items which led to me being overdrawn and added a charge. Exactly what the charge was for I don't know, but as they'd paid the item it can't have been for an unpaid item. I've just tried to go back in my statements, but internet banking won't let me go back that far.

Irrelevant really anyway as it's all done with and refunded, but it definitely happened. It may well not have been an overdraft charge - perhaps there's a charge for going against the T&C's or something?

[leclerc]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

I'm not arguing, I'm just stating that rightly or wrongly they paid items which led to me being overdrawn and added a charge. Exactly what the charge was for I don't know, but as they'd paid the item it can't have been for an unpaid item. I've just tried to go back in my statements, but internet banking won't let me go back that far.

Irrelevant really anyway as it's all done with and refunded, but it definitely happened. It may well not have been an overdraft charge - perhaps there's a charge for going against the T&C's or something?

This thread you have said to Mr.Ton that he will be charged for being overdrawn. Please try not to write something if you don't know what you are talking about or are guessing. It wastes my time actually looking the stuff up and your time having provide a contradictory point of view to the OP which puts doubt in their mind. Let's work together and make sure we actually KNOW what we are saying and not simply saying I got charged but I don't know why. You have should know why and you should always challenge a bank as to why you were charged and how you were charged.

[Caspar]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

A little unnecessary I think. I went overdrawn twice, the items were paid leading to me going overdrawn by under £3.00 each time - I felt it was a fair enough assumption to make that the charges were for going overdrawn against their T&C's, I did not feel the need to check or ask the bank. Both times I phoned the bank, pointed out my otherwise exemplarary record and they refunded the charges. At no stage in the conversations did they disagree that the charges had been imposed for going overdrawn.

Please stop being offensive by insinuating to a member of long standing and, I believe, reasonable repute that they are guessing or don't know what they're talking about.

Now please stop wasting everyone's time by posting nitpicking threads which contribute little to the issue and which are insulting to other posters. As for wasting your time by looking up the T&C's, it took me approximately one minute to do the same. I find it hard to believe you consider the use of one minute a waste of your time considering the hours some of us spend, sometimes still not coming up with a satisfactory result for the poster.

[leclerc]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

I'm not arguing, I'm just stating that rightly or wrongly they paid items which led to me being overdrawn and added a charge. Exactly what the charge was for I don't know, but as they'd paid the item it can't have been for an unpaid item. I've just tried to go back in my statements, but internet banking won't let me go back that far.
So you are guessing or you are assuming which is what drew the comment from me. And you didn't ask them why you were charged because they refunded it without argument so you weren't sure either.
Irrelevant really anyway as it's all done with and refunded, but it definitely happened. It may well not have been an overdraft charge - perhapsPerhaps suggests that you are guessing as well rather than stating that they do charge or do not charge for that. there's a charge for going against the T&C's or something?

As stated, Caspar, you guessed rather than read the Terms and conditions which I did do to be sure that the advice given and the information provided was correct because putting doubt into someone's mind COULD have lead to them doing one thing when something else might have been a better response. I'm not insulting you either merely voicing my own pre coffee annoyance that you didn't put in the time to double check things which took me about two minutes and forced me to do that based on your mistaken post. You guessed so I am correct in that statement based solely on what you wrote. You did not check that information and was not 100% certain in what you were saying.

Caspar, thankfully, mr.ton is a long standing user of these consumer forums across a number of them so the advice would not have caused any further stress to a potentially stressful situation, but please please make sure you are 100% certain on bank charges and how they work because otherwise we will stand here on a thread giving conflicting information which simply there to confuse, mislead and at worst increase rather than decrease the already stressful situation. If "nitpicking" means that the person who has started a thread does not worry even more about ever increasing their own debt then it is a nitpick worth doing and as you would expect, I'll continue to do that regardless of whether it is you or any other poster.

EDIT: in response to your comment about the hours spent, some of us have sacrificed years of our lives on the forums and having to nitpick is not something that you want to do especially if they are very much known on the forum but sometimes, it is required otherwise respecting someone's long term knowledge means ignoring their misinformation simply because of their longevity. Plus I won't blow smoke up your rear if something is being said that clearly is not right as you would not do if I did the same thing.

[Caspar]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

Sorry we can't all be perfect! After two phone calls with the bank themselves who never once disagreed with the reason for the charge, I still think it was a fair assumption to make, even if it has turned out to be incorrect.

It's a good job there are perfectionists like yourself around to double check these reasonable assumptions just in case. Were it not against RIPA legislation I would send you the recordings! You could make your own mind up then about the reasonableness or otherwise of those assumptions.

I would suggest you choose your words more carefully in future, the statements that I did not know what I was talking about and guessing were unnecessary. I had been in the situation, talked to the bank and they had not disagreed with me.

I shall not make any further comment on this as it is counter-productive, except to reiterate, quite genuinely, that it is good there are perfectionists like you around prepared to waste their time checking the reasonable assumptions of others.

[leclerc]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

Sorry we can't all be perfect! After two phone calls with the bank themselves who never once disagreed with the reason for the charge, I still think it was a fair assumption to make, even if it has turned out to be incorrect.

It's a good job there are perfectionists like yourself around to double check these reasonable assumptions just in case. Were it not against the DPA I would send you the recordings! You could make your own mind up then about the reasonableness or otherwise of those assumptions.
If you want to go there then I'm game. It's not against the DPA for the recordings to be sent to me, however your consent is required. However, since you do not have my address then it would have to go via a third party if you have those calls. Otherwise, I am sure you can upload them to the tinterweb and I can listen to them as well.
I would suggest you choose your words more carefully in future, the statements that I did not know what I was talking about and guessing were unnecessary. I had been in the situation, talked to the bank and they had not disagreed with me.

Caspar, on this specific topic, you guessed. I choose not to guess, because I looked it up. http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/cf...conditions.pdf
you are looking at condition 13.1

"13.1 We do not offer formal overdraft services on this account but if
you request a payment where you do not have sufficient funds
available on your account and our systems allow it to be paid we
will not charge you even if the payment causes you to overdraw
your account. If we do not make the payment we can charge you an
unpaid item fee. Details can be found in our account charges leaflet"

Or perhaps this leaflet is better: http://www.co-operativebank.co.uk/cf...ges_120609.pdf

That is on the Co-Op website.

I shall not make any further comment on this as it is counter-productive, except to reiterate, quite genuinely, that it is good there are perfectionists like you around prepared to waste their time checking the reasonable assumptions of others.

Caspar, assumptions make an ass of some people is how the saying goes. Read the above and think about it. I stated two days ago that I based the post on their own Terms and conditions and you said, they charged me regardless of the terms and conditions and that it was likely which is wrong. You have then stated that you are not sure and then that you don't like being called out because your guesswork was incorrect based on the banks' own literature.
In the too many years I have been on the forums, my argument has always been that unless a person understands why they have been charged then they have no way of avoiding the charges so unfortunately, I will always be a "perfectionist" in that regards because if we confuse people as to the mechanism for charging people then they have no way of avoiding charges and we do forum users a disservice in doing that. Perhaps I should write another guide(Groan!groan!) on the charging structures of basic accounts, ie Cashminder, Basic account etc, etc, so that the confusion on this site ceases to be an issue however FWIW, all banks charge for an unpaid item but not for being in the overdraft. Clearly Co-Op shut accounts on the third separate occasion that this happens but not all banks do have this practice.

[Caspar]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

Re the recording of phone calls, perhaps you should take a leaf out of your own book!

The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication. For further information see the Home Office website where RIPA is posted.

[leclerc]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

Re the recording of phone calls, perhaps you should take a leaf out of your own book!

The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication. For further information see the Home Office website where RIPA is posted.

Perhaps I was being an ass as well as yourself as I ASSUMED you were talking about you getting hold of the banks' recording of the call and not your own personal recording. However, post up the transcript of the call cos that is not unlawful

EDIT: it might provide some evidence of what idiots you have been dealing with at the bank as well

[Caspar]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

Leclerc,

I always appreciate it when people can have civil disagreements without falling out! As you correctly pointed out earlier we are here for the benefit of the posters and work together, despite any inevitable occasional personal disagreements between those doing their best to offer advice.

As you say, perhaps we are both asses, or, as I suspect, both keen to do our best for posters while defending what we believe.

:tinysmile_grin_t::tinysmile_grin_t::tinysmile_gri n_t::tinysmile_grin_t::tinysmile_grin_t::tinysmile _grin_t::tinysmile_grin_t::tinysmile_grin_t:

[leclerc]

Re: Snotty letter off Co-Op Bank

I assumed we were disagreeing about factual errors rather than this being personal so we can make it personal if you want, lol!