cabot charging order

[gillwall]

Hi all
This is my first thread and in need of advice please so hear goes.
I have a ccj against me with cabot, in may 2010, the original amount was for £7204.00. A payment plan for £48.00 monthly was set up, but they wanted more, a redetermination hearing was set for July 2010, I attended but no representative from cabot, the judge went in my favour in saying as long as i kept to the payment plan no further action would be taken
I have kept to the plan and paid of more, I know owe £3500.00, reducing this debt to almost half within six month, showing i intend to pay off this debt
I made a large payent at the end of october,
Iwrote to cabot askking if i could reduce my monthly paymentas i had paid such al large mount of the debt.
There wasnt any contact untill I received a letter at the end of December informing me that a finale charging order had been set for the 2nd of feb 2011, I contacted cabo who adviced me that as long as i maintained the new payment plan of £28.00 monthly no other action would be taken, and i would receive further documents within the next ten days.
The documents arrived this morning with all the necessarey information, but the amount that is shown as owing is still £7714.00, which is incorrect and have evidence that this payment was made to cabot in October,
DO i attend the hearing with this evidense and explain to the judge of cacots incosstances, as i have paid back far more than agreed.
Any advice will be greatly received.

The reason for such high debt was due to my husbands illness which is still ongoing and all my salary goes towards priority bills. we also have two dependants. My husband had ppi cover but due to being self employed the calim was not up held, it is currently with the FOS, this was also explained to cabot.
Sorry its so long
Best wishes

[Amethyst]

Re: cabot charging order

Hi there,

Yes definately attend the final charging order hearing. BEcause the judgment was for £48 a month, they applied for redetermination to get a forthwith judgement and charging order, but you called their bluff and attended and the court kept it at the original judgment. Now you have asked to reduce it, it means you would not be paying the judgmented installmnets and leaves the door open for them to get the charging order.

To avoid the CO you would need to keep up the original judgmented installments of £48. You could have applied to the court for redetermination to a lower amount, rather than speaking to Cabot direct, but it is likely Cabot will have asked for the CO as security had you done that.

Do you know when Cabot obtained the interim charging order ? Does that correspond with when they applied for redetermination the first time and failed ?

You'll need to write a witness statement and get it to court a few days before the hearing. Spell out what payments you have made (with evidence if possible) and the reasons for needing to make lower payments now, I don;'t know your personal situation but use anything you can to show the judge you are not trying to avoid paying and really can't risk having the charging order on your family home.

We can help you with it with a bit more information.

Ame
xx

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

Thank you for the fast response, so here goes. The redetemination was in june, I have continued to make agreed payments untill october where i made a payement of £700.00 and another of £2700.00. (this Wwas a ppi claime i had back ). I then wrote to cabot suggesting that because of the lump sum payement i had made, would it be possible to reduce my payement,
I had no response untill the end of December asking me to contact the office of morgans solicitors with reference to setting up a new payment plan and that they would need a charging order to secure the debt, which has been done. althyough they acknowledge the lump sum payment and thanking me .
I received the court documets on the 6th of Jan, the hearing is the 2nd of Feb. , but there is a descrepancy with the amount I owe cabot, the lump payement of £3200.00 had not been deducted from my account.
I have obtained a statment from cabots customer web site showing i have made payments of £3900.00, where my agreed payments were in a total £288.00 for this period of time, and reducing my debt by half within six months, the court document state a payment of only£96.00 has been made, which is not correct.
I have all the evidence of payments, letters etc.
Thanking you
Best wishes

[Amethyst]

Re: cabot charging order

Ok, so you are happy to have the debt secured by charging order in return for the lower monthly installments ?

In that case you need to write a witness statement to send to the court before the hearing listing all the payments made, dates and attach to it any evidence, stating that any charge over your home should only be for the remaining debt not the full judgmented amount as you have not defaulted on the judgmented payments and are simply asking to reduce payments due to your circumstances and taking into account you have paid a lot of it off.

I'm not sure how it works tbh, whether CO's need to be for the judgmented amount and are only 'cashed in' for the actual amount owing on the balance due...will try check out what the formal rules are for you. My CO is still registered on my house at the original 6k but the account balance is around £900 now (after 4 years paying installments). Once it is paid the charging order will be removed from the house, and if sold, only £900 would go to the creditors, but something I need to look in to.

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

Thank you,
This is useful information, I dont want a charging orfer on the property, but am concerned that such important documents from cabot / morgans solicitors have incorrect details, can i suggest this to the Judge at the hearing or in the documents i will be sending prior to the hearing.

Im not sure how do i address the Judge at the hearing. :fear:
Can you help.
Best wishes
Gill.

[Amethyst]

Re: cabot charging order

Whens the hearing ?

Need to get a witness statement in 7 days before listing all your payments, I'll dig up an example in a while which we can work on to suit.

Civil court you would address the Judge as Sir or Madam The hearings are pretty informal, which court are you at ?

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

Hi and thanks again for the quick reply,
The hearing is on the 2nd of Feb at Wolverhampton county court.

[Amethyst]

Re: cabot charging order

This is a basic outline of the Witness Statement to give you an idea of what you need to be putting, red bits I havent changed at all from another WS, but this should be a good starting point, I have basically personalised it from the information you have given me....I'm still unsure if you agreed to the CO and it is only the amount concerning you, or if you want to defend the CO in full, but you can take out what isn't relevant/add bits that are.

Feel free to ask for any help xx A copy will need to be with Claimants and with Court by about 24th Jan.

Case/Claim No: [Claim number]
In the [insert court name] County Court

[insert name CABOT] CLAIMANT
-AND-
[insert name GILLWALL] DEFENDANT

First WITNESS STATEMENT
OF [insert name GILLWALL]

I, [insert name GILLWALL] of [insert home address] will say as follows:-


1.I am the DEFENDANT in this case.



2.I make this Witness Statement in defence of the claimants application for a Final Charging Order over my property at ADDRESS

3. In June 2010 the Claimants obtained a judgment for £7024 to be paid by installments of £48 per month. In XXXX 2010 the Claimants applied for redetermination to a forthwith order to allow them to gain permission to apply for a charging order. Their request was denied by District Judge XXXXXX at a hearing on XX DATE 2010.

4. Since this Judgment I have made monthly payments of £48 without fail. The first payment was made by cheque payment dated XXXXXX and cashed by the Claimants on XXXXXXX.


5. In addition to these monthly payments I also made a payment of £XXXX on XX DATE xxx and £XXX on XX DATE XX. I was able to do this due to a refund of Payment Protection Insurance received from XXXXXXX Bank.

6. A spreadsheet detailing these payments is attached. (exhibit B) (attach spreadsheet showing all payments made with dates and amounts)

7. These payments mean there is only £3000 remaining to be paid under the Judgment dated XXX ORIGINAL JUDGMENT DATE XXX.


8. On XX DATE XX I contacted the Claimants to request their agreement to redetermine the monthly installment amount from £48 to £28 per month as my financial circumstances have worsened since the original judgment due to XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX and with consideration of the amount I have already paid over and above the installments due under the Judgment.

9 . The Claimants Solictors notified the Defendant of their intention to apply for a Charging Order against his property at XX ADDRESS XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX during a telephone conversation / letter ? in return for reducing the monthly installments.

10. The Defendant is unwilling to accept this and feels the claimant is unfair in requesting a charging order as the defendant has made the ordered payments proposed on time without fail, and additional lump sums as they have been available, as outlined in paragraphs 4,5 and 6 of this witness statement.

11. I respectfully draw the court's attention to the case of Mercantile Credit Company v Ellis 1987 in which the judge ruled that a court has to first issue a judgment and that payments made under that judgment must be in arrears before a charging order can be granted.

12. This property is the defendant’s main and only residence and resides there with his partner and 3 children aged X, X and X. The Defendant's Partner, xxx name xxx is joint owner of the property. The loan agreement is solely in the name of the defendant.

13. The property is in negative equity and the defendant has several other unsecured debts. The defendant feels that by granting the claimant a Charging Order they would gain unfair advantage on the other debtors. The defendant also has other debts secured against the property. This is detailed on his income and expenditure sheet attached (exhibit C).

14. The Claimants Solictors also notified the Defendant of their intention to request repayment of the judgment debt over a period of under 5 years (60 months) in the telephone conversation between the defendant and Incasso solictors on the XX September 2010.

15. The Defendant is unable to commit to payments at such a rate and feels the claimant is unfair in requesting the debt be paid over a shorter period than that which the original agreement allowed, especially considering the Claimant is aware of the Defendants financial circumstances. The original agreement was for installments to be paid over 7 years (84 months).

16. The Defendant undertstands that the time period for repayment of the debt is extended by the redetermination of installments to £28.00 per month and is happy to review this figure with a view to increasing it at 6 monthly intervals as his circumstances and financial position allow.

17. A full current financial breakdown is attached to this statement (exhibit C)

Statement of Truth I believe the facts stated within this Witness Statement to be true and exhibit Exhibits [your initials] comprising of xx pages.

Dated this xxxx day of xxxxxxx 2009
Signed [type name]

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

Your a star, thank you so much for sorting this draft witness statement, i feel confidentin in attending the hearing, and wont be bullied by cabot. I will keep you updated on any developments and the outcome of the hearing.
Once again a BIG thankyou.
Best wishes.
Gill

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

For got to ask would it be beneficial to list the amount of charges etc cabot has added to my debt, it is in excess of £1000.00 plus previous court costs of the previous redetermination, where the judge went in my favioue.
Once again thankyou Gill

[Amethyst]

Re: cabot charging order

For got to ask would it be beneficial to list the amount of charges etc cabot has added to my debt, it is in excess of £1000.00 plus previous court costs of the previous redetermination, where the judge went in my favioue.
Once again thankyou Gill

Most definately, and you should also add in that you have the PPI claim pending with the FOS and the approximate value of such. Not as a defence as such as you still have the CCJ, more of an illustration to show the judge that they have treated you poorly, and it is likely you will get another refund and be able to pay another lump sum off in the not too distant future.

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

Ok will do, i have also got a copy of the letter from the FOS, stating due to the large amount of ppi problems my case will take a little longer.
Thank you
Gill :decision:

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

While sorting out my cabot documents ready for the hearing, I have come across a letter iwrote to them back in March, asking for a copy of the agreement, as there are two conflicting amount i owe, I know understad one must be the original debt and the other is with cabots charges etc. After all the wory of the court hearings and the maner in which cabot have communicated with me, i reaise that i have no agreement, or acknowlwdgement of the letter, even though I am making payements will this have and reflection on the maner the Judge reacts.
Thankyou Gill .

[Amethyst]

Re: cabot charging order

If you still dispute the amount you owe dispite the payments you have made under the judgment (ie dispute the original claim amount) then really the time to do that was pre judgment, I very much doubt if you would get a set aside at this stage with just a general not sure if its right argument, it'd have to be something solid, but include all the information (eg. sent a cca request for the agreement / statement of account / doesn't tally etc) in the witness statement - not too legally, just as a general concern, it can't come across you are looking for a way out of the debt else Cabot might get through with securing the debt with a CO on that basis alone.

Maybe once you have redrafted the WS post it up here and we can have a look over it for you xx

[gillwall]

Re: cabot charging order

Hi
Just a quick update, I contacted Morgans solicitors yesterday the 10th, I explained that the figure on the court papers are incorrect by approx £3000.00+. The gentleman on the other end of the phone couldnt understand what i was talking about, so I used my initative and suggested he looked at my account online, " Oh yes, i can see what you mean, we have forgot to deduct the lump payemnent made back in October,. I'll contact the main office and get it changed." Within ten minutes he phone me back and informed me that the correct papperwork will arrive soon.
I was also a little sarcastic and suggested as you pointed out to me that if i am not in areas they cannot obtain a charging order, and I once again quoted the £3000.00 in credit, if you know what i mean.
Im quite astounded and shocked in the way i communicated with him, theres no stopping me now, just hope it still goes to court, if they dare,
Thank you
Gill