Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

[rhinoman1966]

Hi hello everybody, This is only my second post here on legal beagles forums.
I was wondering if anyone has any help and advice as to how I should now proceed, made a CCA request to Cabot financial the debt that I have with City financial after much time several letters from Cabot apologising for the delay and a letter to them putting the account in dispute, today a big envelope of paper work arrived including some old statements pages and pages, of terms and conditions in the letter that they have sent with this paperwork it says and I quote this paragraph from their letter Not withstanding the above please find enclosed all the relevant information following your request for information under section 77-78 of the CCA. We can confirm that we have provided they reconstituted true copy of your credit agreement, which for the avoidance of doubt complies with the consumer credit act (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 and therefore complies with the obligations set out under section 77-78 of the CCA.
Obviously being a reconstituted copy it does not contain my my signature or a signature of the original lender.
It states in the letter from Cabot that they purchased the debt from Citi financial on the XXXX date, but they have failed to provide in all the information sent the deed of assignment.
I am looking for some advice as the best way to proceed, I have previously contacted Cabot with a view to making a Full and final settlement offer (funds coming from my father to make full and final offer to all the other debts I have only enough money to offer about 28%) this offer was refused they can bet with a counter offer of just over 50% this was all prior to requesting the CCA the advice I am looking for is how to make a further offer full and final, Clearly if Cabot at the original consumer credit agreement signed by both parties and containing all the prescribed terms they would have sent it and not gone to the trouble of getting a reconstituted true copy of my credit agreement can anyone please advise as to what the next best course of action is in making a full and final offer.
If anyone please help I'm sorry if this post is long winded and if you want to scan and post up any letters or the agreements, please let me know.
Thank you very much

[paulb2905]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

They can provide reconstituted copies for a S77/78 request following the recent guidance from the OFT.

If you want the copies of the originals you will have to apply under CPR rules 31.16 or 31.14 and keep it specific to the true copies of the original Application Form/Agreement, Prescribed Terms and the full T&C's in effect at the time.

Have you looked into the possibility of a DMP or IVA to clear the debts?

One tactic i have heard used to force them into agreement is to inform them you intend to file for bankruptcy (if this is in option) - but this is an extreme tactic and should be used with extreme caution.

[rhinoman1966]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

hi and thank you for your reply
Yes have looked at the possibility of IVA was advised not sufficient income to support such a way forward is was in a debt management program for about four years failed last year breakdown due to lack of disposable income to keep up the payments, have negotiated and paid off with full and final offer is on several of my debts. Already.
Have already put to creditors the option of going bankrupt, had the house valued if it went auction and sold as a distress sale, provided them with income and expenditure breakdowns and what they could expect to receive in the event of bankruptcy which was calculated at about 10% so are believed full and final settlement would be best for all all-round.
could you please provide more details about the CPR rules is there templated letter that can be used, I'm still left scratching my head as to why they go to the trouble of providing re-constructed agreements if they have the originals.
Any further advice gratefully received. many thanks

[Angry Cat]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

You state that they have sent you pages and pages of Terms and Conditions.

But have they actually sent you the inception T&C's?

[rhinoman1966]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

I don't know whether they are the terms and conditions that were in place at the time inception, they may well be reconstituted as well, how can I tell?

[paulb2905]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

Usually by the penalty charges £12 or less (dare i say it) will be recent year or two maximum (cant remember when they came into effect) you will need to provide some information like when credit card was taken out for someone with the information to post up links (or google Citi + year)

Disclosure before proceedings start

31.16

(1) This rule applies where an application is made to the court under any Act for disclosure before proceedings have started1.

(2) The application must be supported by evidence.

(3) The court may make an order under this rule only where –
(a) the respondent is likely to be a party to subsequent proceedings;

(b) the applicant is also likely to be a party to those proceedings;

(c) if proceedings had started, the respondent’s duty by way of standard disclosure, set out in rule 31.6, would extend to the documents or classes of documents of which the applicant seeks disclosure; and

(d) disclosure before proceedings have started is desirable in order to –
(i) dispose fairly of the anticipated proceedings;

(ii) assist the dispute to be resolved without proceedings; or

(iii) save costs.



(4) An order under this rule must –
(a) specify the documents or the classes of documents which the respondent must disclose; and

(b) require him, when making disclosure, to specify any of those documents –
(i) which are no longer in his control; or

(ii) in respect of which he claims a right or duty to withhold inspection.



(5) Such an order may –
(a) require the respondent to indicate what has happened to any documents which are no longer in his control; and

(b) specify the time and place for disclosure and inspection.

PART 31 - DISCLOSURE AND INSPECTION OF DOCUMENTS - Ministry of Justice

[Amethyst]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

I don't know whether they are the terms and conditions that were in place at the time inception, they may well be reconstituted as well, how can I tell?

Default charges is one way, the other is compare the interest rates quoted with your first few statements.

[rhinoman1966]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

I don't have any of the early statements to check the interest rate against.

I don't know what date I actually took out this card not actually sure which year neither

Just have another look at this big pile of papers they have sent there appears to be 2 credit card agreement the first one is from Associates capital Corporation with a date at the top of 01 03 2001. I've had a look through this and can't find any penalty charges detailed there is a section and I quote from Failure to pay on time Any overdue interest will be added to the outstanding balance of the account if you fail to remedy any breach we may require you to repay the full amount outstanding on the account.
We may also debit your account with our costs in respect of any arrears notices sent to you with regard to any breach of the agreement and with any collection charges incurred by us as a result of such breach

The second credit card agreement is an agreement from Citi Financial Europe plc with a date at the top of the pageand title which I think relates to more than one type of card city and BMI baby cards the date on that 01 05 2006 default charges on this one our at £25.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

I don't have any of the early statements to check the interest rate against.

I don't know what date I actually took out this card not actually sure which year neither

Just have another look at this big pile of papers they have sent there appears to be 2 credit card agreement the first one is from Associates capital Corporation with a date at the top of 01 03 2001. I've had a look through this and can't find any penalty charges detailed there is a section and I quote from Failure to pay on time Any overdue interest will be added to the outstanding balance of the account if you fail to remedy any breach we may require you to repay the full amount outstanding on the account.
We may also debit your account with our costs in respect of any arrears notices sent to you with regard to any breach of the agreement and with any collection charges incurred by us as a result of such breach

The second credit card agreement is an agreement from Citi Financial Europe plc with a date at the top of the pageand title which I think relates to more than one type of card city and BMI baby cards the date on that 01 05 2006 default charges on this one our at £25.

You need to make FULL subject access requests (SAR) to both.

Members, really should make SAR's prior to making section 77-79 CCA requests!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Reconstituted credit agreement supplied by Cabot original lender Citi Financial.

In 2000, Citigroup acquired Associates First Capital Corporation, which, until 1989, had been owned by Gulf+Western (now part of National Amusements). The Associates was widely criticized for predatory lending practices and Citi eventually settled with the Federal Trade Commission by agreeing to pay $240 million to customers who had been victims of a variety of predatory practices, including "flipping" mortgages, "packing" mortgages with optional credit insurance, and deceptive marketing practices.[28]