Contractual Interest

[Budgie]

Compound Interest arguments

Thought I would dump some stuff in here for future reference.

It looks like I am going to be arguing my claim for Compound Interest in Court.

Well that is if the Judge doesnt throw out the Capital One Defence at my Application Hearing on 18th June 2008.

Anyway I will post relevant bits and pieces of documentation relevant to Compound Interest arguments in here for future Reference.


1) Law Commission Report No 287 - Final Report

2) Law Commission Report No 287 - Summary of Recommendations

3) Law Commission Report No 287 - Draft Bill

4) Sempra Judgment

5) Interest Tutorial - Thanks to Steven4064 on CAG

6) Link to my Capital One thread Click Here

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Contractual Interest

It has been a bit dusty in here of late hasn't it Budgie lol.

[Budgie]

Re: Contractual Interest

Sure has Tanzarelli, Am hoovering as we speak !!!

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Contractual Interest

Sure has Tanzarelli, Am hoovering as we speak !!!

Good man, I will help out too when I can mate.

[strangewayofsavin]

Re: Contractual Interest

sorry for the but in, but as I understand, the basis on CI claim is because of a 2 way contract, the bank charge 29% etc, so as a so say retaliation we charge 29% back in our claim, due to the fact a contract should be negotiable at all levels.
If so, on a mortgage, claim (lol), should this be on the B.O.E rate or LIBBOR rate, or both???
lol

[ROBSTER]

Re: Contractual Interest

Mutuality and reciprocity of contract were (we are informed) put to bed with Haliday -v -Hbos.

Clearly DLA Piper who defended HBOS put in a far more convincing argument.

You might consider Unjust Enrichment on the basis that the charges were put on to the account in error.

Let’s say you paid £1000 in bank charges

Here's the thing with that do you assume that the bank just lent your money out to say me at 30% to cover my unarranged overdraft or do you say "hold on" the fractional reserve banking system allows for lending out that money many times over so the bank may have used that £1000 reserve to make loans (Overdrafts) of say £5000 i.e. making £1500 a year on your £1000. (Good work if you can get it!). Of course that would Compound up as at the end of year 1 there would be £1500 extra to lend out so after 6 years using the gross interest as at year end to reinvest the bank now have £244,140.00.

Which is how much a bank could make on £1000 invested for 6 years?

But let’s be fair you can get up to 5% after tax from some of them if you shop around.

How much of a fight would you expect from a system threatened with returning all of their charges based on that calculation!:beagle:
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------

If so, on a mortgage, claim (loll), should this be on the B.O.E rate or LIBBOR rate, or both???
Loll

Be careful with Mortgage claims. There is a clause in almost all mortgage contracts making you responsible for any legal fees so unless you are confident that the case will not be escalated out of Small Claims Court think long and hard about the repercussions of attracting the other side’s legal expenses.

On the interest front you might consider Statutory Interest is sufficient at 8%. Each individual offer of settlement will have different merits.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Contractual Interest

Another of those fractional banking arguments, don't you just love that old chestnut emerging again

[ROBSTER]

Re: Contractual Interest

Just trying to stimulate some debate, you would probably know better what the ratios are natty.

Point being there is a lot at stake here for the banks.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Contractual Interest

Just trying to stimulate some debate, you would probably know better what the ratios are natty.

Point being there is a lot at stake here for the banks.

Ok, Contractual interest on a credit card is a piece of ****.
On a bank account, are you having a laugh, try explaining that to a judge in court(remember he studied law and practiced law all his life and has an accountant to do the big stuff like adding up and his tax return. KISS principal should be observed)

[ROBSTER]

Re: Contractual Interest

Ok, Contractual interest on a credit card is a piece of ****.

On a bank account, are you having a laugh, try explaining that to a judge in court (remember he studied law and practiced law all his life and has an accountant to do the big stuff like adding up and his tax return. KISS principal should be observed)

If unjust enrichment can be (awarded) proven, it would be an interesting exercise in pushing the defendant for full disclosure and then employ a team of forensic accountants to analyse how much could have been made on a notional £1k paid into a banks notional depository reserve account.

There probably is not enough money left in British banking to defend such an intrusive case and I suspect a compromise would be likely.

Re Judge :KISS principal should be observed? they are not all as daft as people make out, (if you can catch one before lunch) LOL

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Contractual Interest

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If unjust enrichment can be (awarded) proven, it would be an interesting exercise in pushing the defendant for full disclosure and then employ a team of forensic accountants to analyse how much could have been made on a notional £1k paid into a banks notional depository reserve account.
It can't be used yet as OFT test case ongoing and likelihood is compensatory amount will be added into the final settlement of the case.

There probably is not enough money left in British banking to defend such an intrusive case and I suspect a compromise would be likely.
I hate this point Robster cos it is crap. RBS insured debts of £250Billion at the lower end of the estimate and yet we are talking this crap of they haven't got enough money??? BS
Re Judge :KISS principal should be observed? they are not all as daft as people make out, (if you can catch one before lunch) LOL

Unfortunately, 9 times out of 10 you get Judge KISS

[ROBSTER]

Re: Contractual Interest

Well it’s a big if.

If I managed to convince a judge that there was a case for awarding interest based on unjust enrichment and if my mates in accounting law could demonstrate how the banking model works to the court and if the judge agreed a payout based on my earlier hypothesis it wouldn’t take many claims to blow a hole in £250 billion.

Wasn't it the Bank of England who insured the £250 Billion money with premiums met through the money supplied by the government in the wake of the failed rights issue?

[Glenn UK]

account of profits!

My judge tried to warn me not to go there, but would i listen??

Anyway then the claims were stayed and i haven't worked on it for ages. Its similar in concept to unjust enrichment as i recall and I'm sure if i try hard i can dig out the references i have on UE and AoP.

Glenn

[ROBSTER]

Re: Contractual Interest

Budgie has some interesting thoughts on CCI on credit cards, but

1) Is the onus on the claimant to prove how much additional interest they encumbered by borrowing off a credit card (or maybe a cheeky provident loan?) in the alternative to having the equivalent amount of money to that unjustly (?) removed by the bank?

Or

2) Do we employ a forensic accountant to see just how much money the bank would have made on an equivalent amount of working capital and to this end where would that money be (best) utilised on the banks balance sheet (in fact)?

[strangewayofsavin]

Re: Contractual Interest

Budgie has some interesting thoughts on CCI on credit cards, but

1) Is the onus on the claimant to prove how much additional interest they encumbered by borrowing off a credit card (or maybe a cheeky provident loan?) in the alternative to having the equivalent amount of money to that unjustly (?) removed by the bank?

Or

2) Do we employ a forensic accountant to see just how much money the bank would have made on an equivalent amount of working capital and to this end where would that money be (best) utilised on the banks balance sheet (in fact)?

Or would proving how much additional interest they encumbered just be acknowledgement of how much you actually understood the terms and conditions you originaly signed?