Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individual

[WendyB]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

The point is this:


If I undertook the course of actions that Sainsbury's and the four DCA'S have taken, with four of my friends (Making five of us in total) against an individual or a company or a buisness of any type, then I would be arrested along with my friends ( The ringleader and the members of my gang) and thrown into prison and fined, THAT'S THE POINT!


For what is the constancy of purpose to the laws of the land?

Many Thanks
Godzilla.

yes but only if there were precedents and case law etc to back it up, and a very strong POC and case for the prosecution. The law of the land does not allow for people to be arrested, fined and thrown in prision just becuase they have done something which another pserson disagrees with.

[Paule]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

Pkea,
Are you willing to state the details of your harassment case, ie: how long the harassment was, how many companies involved, what happened to cause the harassment, did you owe the money if harassment was related to being in debt? etc,etc.

One Company (Debt Collection Agency)
approx 15 months it lasted
Calls & Letters from them and their 'in house' solicitors
Forged letters intended to eb from the Original Company
Unsubstantiated alleged debt.
No money owed

Went quiet prior to issuing civil proceedings approx 6 months ago

I did post a link to my case, but I now realise it is in a forum that you cannot access.

[Paule]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

If I undertook the course of actions that Sainsbury's and the four DCA'S have taken, with four of my friends (Making five of us in total) against an individual or a company or a buisness of any type, then I would be arrested along with my friends ( The ringleader and the members of my gang) and thrown into prison and fined, THAT'S THE POINT!.

Which court are you bringing the action at?
County or Magistrates?
There are differences between civil & criminal cases - which is yours?

[Amy]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

So you're talking an eye for eye? Someone mugs you, you expect to be able to do the same to them?

If you went to the zoo and decided that you quite liked those large but furry and cute animals lazing in the sun and wanted to stroke one of them but instead it turned on you and attacked you - would you sue the zoo for failing to protect you adequately even though you completely ignored their advice or would you think "fair enough, I should have done as I was told"?

[Godzilla]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

To wendyb,


One does not need any case law to back-up statute law, I am refering to The Protection From Harassment Act.


Under this Act "A Person" must not pursue a course of conduct which they know or ought to know amounts to harassment of another.

In the circumstances "A Person" does not literally mean "A Person", this Act (PFHA) applies to individual and companies and buisnesses alike.

And simply because there is no case law in relation to harassment of another by a bank and other companies joined together in pursuing the same course of conduct, this does not mean that there is no case to answer, and also does not mean that the courts cannot pass a Judgement on it, simply because they have no bench mark to guide them.


The Aministation Of Justice Act 1970. sec 40.

Section 40 of the Act provides that a person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:


1. harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occassion of their making, or an accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;


2. falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;


3. falsely represent themselves to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;


4. utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.



Paragraph (1) of sec 40, does not apply to anything done by a person which is reasonable(and otherwise legal) for the purpose of:


A. of securing the discharge of an obligation due, or belived by him to be due, to himself or to persons for whom he acts, or protecting himself or them from future loss; or


B. of the enforcement of any liability by legal process.

(I make reference here to the word "Believed", in my case there was no evidence to support this "Belief").


It is also provided that a person may be guilty of an offence under paragraph (1) above if he concerts with others in the taking of such action as is described in that paragraph, notwithstanding that his own course of conduct does not by itself amount to harassment.


Many Thanks
Godzilla.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
To Amy,

Sainsbury's completely ignored my advice for sixteen and a half months, I am stating in my earlier post that the law of the land applies equally to all those who dwell upon that land. (Equally and all those are the key words here)

So I do not know why you make such statements inrelation to animals at a zoo!


Many Thanks
Godzilla.

[Amy]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

So I do not know why you make such statements inrelation to animals at a zoo!

Many Thanks
Godzilla.

It's called an analogy. I was attempting to draw a comparison between your attitude and conduct and that of the man who patted the lions.

I clearly failed.

[Godzilla]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

To Pkea,

You have stated that you are seeking "£5.00 per contact" in your case of harassment.

I would like to ask you, if you don't mind, are you willing to state what is the total amount of compensation that you seek?

What does "£5.00 per contact" equate to as a total sum amount?

What is the total, if any, of the legal and court fees that you are claiming for your case?

What are the "particulars of your claim"?

What do you mean by your statement "Went quiet prior to issuing civil proceedings approx 6 months ago"?


Many Thanks
Godzilla.

[Mochamoo]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

You may be waiting around abit for responses today Godzilla, Its a rather exciting day OFT Forum - Legal Beagles :tinysmile_twink_t2:

[Godzilla]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

To Amy,

I do not want an argument with anyone on this site, but I do disagree with you using animals in zoos as being a comparison to Sainsbury's and the four DCA'S against me, however, I do agree with you in the fact of your analogy failed, as it makes no sense.


Let's say this instead , I commit a crime, I get taken to court and a Judgement is made whereby if I am found quilty, I am suitably punnished for the offence I committed.

The fact is Sainsbury's have committed an offence against the person (s) and the statute law of the land, one is entitled to take them to court, and prove my case.


Many Thanks
Godzilla.

Are you saying to me that I am entering into the lions den?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
To Mochamoo,

Thank you for that, much appreciated.

Godzilla.

[Paule]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

To Pkea,

You have stated that you are seeking "£5.00 per contact" in your case of harassment.

I would like to ask you, if you don't mind, are you willing to state what is the total amount of compensation that you seek?
It didnt get as far as court so total wasn't fully accrued

What does "£5.00 per contact" equate to as a total sum amount?
see above

What is the total, if any, of the legal and court fees that you are claiming for your case?
It didn't get as far as court so none could be claimed

What are the "particulars of your claim"?
It didn't get as far as court so didn't submit it, just in draft form

What do you mean by your statement "Went quiet prior to issuing civil proceedings approx 6 months ago"?
They ceased activity following my LBA to them

PKea

[tomterm8]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

I have serious doubts as to the capability of your legal adviser, Godzilla. You quoted an incorrect version of statute law. Any qualified lawyer should know that s40 of the Administration Of justice Act 1970 was ammended by the Consumer Protection from Unfair trading Relationships Regulations 2008 Schedule 2 s13.This is highly relevant to your case.

In any case, breach of s40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 does not create a tort actionable under civil law to the best of my knowledge, it is a criminal offence.

[Paule]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

Can I remind everyone posting on this thread

Godzilla and all

Please can we keep this thread to the facts of the case.

If you wish to continue posting you are most welcome, however I would ask everyone to keep things to the facts of the case and refrain from personal attacks, on all sides.

Ame
xx

[Paule]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

Godzilla

Can you let us know your current position in this matter in a concise manner.
And how your barrister is going to proceed with the case.

I feel we are going round in circles here, so if you could clarify that would be helpful.

PKea

[scoobydoo]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

Please dont let this thread disintegrate into personal comments from either side- as a site we have always tried to avoid that . For obvious reasons.

Godzilla I would just point out that nearly all of the posters here have had experience of or know of cases where there has been extremely bad treatment of individuals by these big organisations. And if you were to win and gain a moral and financial victory we would be the first to congratulate you and encourage others to follow suit. It is just that you may not be the right person or in the correct financial position to take the risk and posters are really trying to make you realise that. I have just seen another case on another site with an argument regarding charges and an unenforcable agreement with Swift finance where the claimant was 100% sure of his facts and lost his case and was refused appeal.

We have no problem with you posting more questions and also letting us know your progress and we wont judge your motives for pursuing the case but likewise you should respect our advice for EXTREME caution.

[natweststaffmember]

Re: Sainsbury's Bank Plc(HBOS) And Four Debt Collection Companies Against An Individu

Hello and good evening to you all and thank you for all the replies,


My case is about harassment from a bank that used the help and support from four other companies in an unlawful, persistent and unjustified campaign that was intended to cause severe stress and anxiety inorder to obtain a payment from me to a debt that I did not owe.


Sainsbury's had already written off the balance of £1,757.62 and closed my account, this was actioned by Sainsbury's in May and June of 2007, before they(Sainsbury's) passed this alledged debt to the DCA'S.
Godzilla I don't think they did do that, which I think is apparent from their response to you.

Sainsbury's failed to update their own records on their system, and as I did not have an account or credit agreement with Sainsbury's, they had no legal right to disclose my personal information(DPA) to any organizesation, there was no relationship between Sainsbury's and I (Creditor/Debtor).
They failed you absolutely which they acknowledge.

Sainsbury's have offered £2.00 per day for all of the 500 consecutive days of harassment, this is also to cover any damage caused as a direct result of unlawful, illegitimate and reckless disclosing of my personal information.
I think if you look at that alone it may not seem that much but they didn't have to offer you anything but £1000.00 is pretty good. I still am not sure of the MONETARY amount you seek since I cannot fathom any other reason to go to a court(in civil cases it should be as a last resort when mediation cannot resolve it).

The financial Ombudsman service is not an option, because they (FOS) cannot enforce the law and I am not in a financial dispute with Sainsbury's.
That isn't correct, the bank in its final letter should have given you that option because the FOS can look at cases of "maladministration"(I think you did have that done to you)

Sainsbury's offer of monetry compensation is to cover the two people who have suffered from this protracted unlawful campaign, 24hrs a day for 500 consecutive days(My wife and I).
How much do you think that they should have offered? What amount would be fair to you(in your opinion)?

Sainsbury's deliberately with-held my factual account history from the DCA'S, and there was a legal duty on them(Sainsbury's) to provide information in relation to my factual account history.
I don't agree on this point unless you can prove that they deliberately did so maliciously. They may well have not updated their files correctly, and that meant instructing DCA's to go after you but I am not sure that I have seen as yet from your posts a deliberate and willful act and if you have got that then the employee concerned should have disciplined internally.

Sainsbury's are refusing to communicate with me and they(Sainsbury's) are refusing to make amends/put things right, the first response letter from Sainsbury's is not making amends or putting things right in circumstances such as mine.
How can they put it right? They removed the default, they closed the account, they offered compensation which you have declined but not stated how much you feel that they should pay out to you.

The second and third letters are contradictory to the first letter, but still Sainsbury's state they will not change their position on this matter, I remain unsatisfied, so into court I will go so that my case can be presented to a Judge.
I repeat, how can they make it right to you because you have not been disadvantaged, per se. If you had for example said that you applied for a mortgage/loan/credit card and it was refused of you had to borrow at a higher rate, then I can see a potential argument but the question that I think a lot of people may find difficult to understand is specifically what YOU(YOU are the claimant/injured party) are seeking from a Judge?

Many Thanks
Godzilla.

PS I am staying on-line for a couple of hours if anyone would like to reply, I would be very gratefull.

I wanted to add one more thing. There are a huge amount of experienced people on this site and are trying to understand your case. No one is saying that you are wrong but it is hard at times to understand what you want from them. For me, that is the important question. I can see HBOS/Sainsbury have admitted that something went wrong and have offered recompense but I think there are questions that I think I need to know.
1) What do YOU want them to do to resolve the issue?
2) What do YOU think is an acceptable solution to this?
Once I understand that I think I can work out whether court action is the best route/FOS is the best route or acceptance of the amount offered.

One question as an aside, How was the £1000.00 offered? Was it cheque, direct payment and was any cheque banked/payment spent?

Godzilla we are getting there and I hope that if you can answer the above that the picture will become like a Van Gogh or perhaps a John Constable(a masterpiece )