Worriedanbothered Charging Order

[worriedandbothered]

There is such a similarity to Bensons predicament to my own I thought I would post and see if there is any chance of advice. I have received Court papers and a date has been set for next month for a charging order. I am on a DMP. they are finally "interested" and at the moment working on a "defence". It is my main creditor and I have been on a DMP for three and a half years now, I only missed the one payment and they got a CCJ,like another postee the DMP just "said let it go ahead" Due to the wording of the latest court document I am very worried that they will try for a sale order after a successful hearing (for them) I have checked and found no trace of any Default Notice being issued to me, although there is a line referring to it on the original CCJ documents, I am presuming this is not a notice? I was wondering whether to write to their solicitors to say I will be asking for the CCJ to be set aside as they did not provide me with any "warning" also to ask for return of the added court fees (four hundred pounds!) Or will this be forewarning them before the Chaging Order hearing? ANY advice on this matter would be most gratefully received. The reason for the original missed payment was because I was made redundant. The reason they are applying now for a charging order is the length if time for repayment, which at over ten years is their reason.

[Amethyst]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

Which Debt Management company are you with? are they writing the defence to the CO or are you ? You will likely get the CO but a decent witness statement will help get it on your terms. What was the CCJ order, was it an installment order for the same amount you are paying under the DMP ?

Default notice would have been quite early on - depending what you situation was when you went into the DMP. You could ask them for a copy for your records rather than saying why etc.

When is the court date and is it for a final CO or for permission to apply for an interim CO ?

[worriedandbothered]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

I am with Gregory Pennington, they are writing the defense. The CCJ order was because I missed one payment (I was made redundant) I did not receive a "Default Notice" to the best of my knowledge. I have asked GP to send me all copies of CC paperwork, It refers to it as a "Claim Form" although I have seen the words default notice somehwere this is a Claimform. I was advised to fill in the form and return it. I then received the judgement. I had been in the DMP for 18 months and the court fixed the repayment at 11p less than I was already paying. What I would really like to know is should I write to their solicitors now and say I am going to apply for the ccj to be set aside as no Default Notice was sent to me? Or will that be a warning to them. I was also charged four hundred pounds costs!
The date is set for 20/1/08 at my local CC, As far as knowing if it os a "final" charging order I would say Yes and it is ominously worded! Hope you can offer some thread of hope!!!

[Amethyst]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

Forget the default notice, that time has passed. What defence are Gregory Pennington using against the Charging order?

They have an interim charging order already, a final charging order is just making the interim order formal and it is most likely you will get the final charge put on the house. This does not mean a sale order but you will need to keep up the installments, and if you can't you must apply to the court for a redetermination order to amend the amount you are paying monthly. I assume the original order allowed for you to make the installments and gave them permission to apply for CO which is what they are now doing.

If you do miss another payment then yes once they have the final order they can apply to court for a sale order but it is very unlikely that they would get it - how much is the actual debt for ? in the witness statement for the hearing you would spell out your situation witht he house, who lives there and whatnot etc. Theres a few we have done around and about and i will try get you some link later on.

If you can get in touch with GP and ask exactly what the defence will read and let us know, would you be willing to take it over yourself ?

[worriedandbothered]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

When you say they have an Interim Charging Order, When did they get that I am totally confused now, also you say the time has passed re Default Notice, does that mean they can just by-pass proper procedure? The defence is (I am receiving this by post tody in all probability, depends on the post) that I have kept to all the payments exept the missing one, for three and a half years now, also I think GP advisor said they had accepted the amount being repayed. I am willing to take on the defence, I have no real choice as they do not attend hearings. Had I left it to them I would have been told to just send them the papers. I am not aware of any mention on the original (ccj) papers of permission for a charging order, just the judgement

[Amethyst]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

Okay Thats okay just seeing if GP were going to use the default notice etc.

when i say the time has passed on that I basically mean you have the CCJ already and have been paying it so to start arguing the toss about it won't really help - although once the important bits are sorted and you are through this hearing - then we can complain to the OFt for their lack of procedure etc.

When you get the defence if you can post it up that would be great and we can see if theres anything more needs adding. It sounds they are doing the right thing though.

If the hearing is for a final Charing order, they must already have an interim charge order - have you not received anything from them or land registry about it?

[worriedandbothered]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

Simple answer to your Land Registry question is no i.e. I have had no mention (fom Lanmd Reagistry ) apart from them (Natwest) saying they have checked with Land Registry on the last (court) notification, nothing from GP and the postman has been already, thanks for your support. I will post the defence when I see it. I am looking at the transfer" to local CC "for the court to deal with the claiments aplication for re-determination" The court will refer to a judge etc..,

[worriedandbothered]

Sorry it has taken so long to reply, but I have only just received the defence. It states that Natwest should have applied within 16 days of the CCJ, it also states that they are trying to put themselves "in front" of my other creditors "unfairly" Also I have not missed any payment since they got the CCJ. There is no mention of the fact they (GP) did not inform me that I would face a CCJ for a single payment default. But I suppose that is water under the proverbial bridge.? Just to add that as far as I am aware they are applying for "re-determination" on the gorunds of how long it will take to repay the outstanding amount. I am led to believe that GP have written to the court to outline the defence, that is, so the judge will have been prepared on the date of the hearing, sorry to spell it out, but it may avoid confusion at a later date.

[worriedandbothered]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

can ANYONE help with advice as promised when I last made a post. I have only just recieved a letter from GP so I could not make any post, Thanks in advance,

[Sapphire]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

Hiya, I will be honest with you and say that I am not good with charging orders and the such but I will BUMP the thread for you and hopefully someone will pop along later who knows more about the situation.

[worriedandbothered]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

thanks for that

[Tools]

Re: Charging Order setaside but now new hearing

If you could scan or type out the defence you received in full (excluding personal info) as Amethyst stated in her last post it would be of help. Amethyst is away for the day so please be patient, she will reply.

Also if you could give the wording of the original CCJ received.

Applying for a charging order is standard practice and does not mean they will push straight ahead for a sale order. If you are continuing to make regular payments to reduce the debt a Judge would usually be unwilling to allow a sale order without a very good reason. Have you read the guide to charging orders? You can find it here Charging Orders - securing unsecured debt this may help put your mind at ease.

[worriedandbothered]

Re: Worriedanbothered Charging Order

It would take too long to re-ptype the defence I have been presented with. I should state it is actually a re-determination hearing NatWest have applied for and been granted. First part of my "defence" asks for payment to remain as is, Second asks court to add no further interest, third lays out details of me approaching GP in 2005 and states I was struggling to make repayments (to all creditors) Fourth paragrah states their (Natwest) application for and granting of CCJ, does not mention I was made redundant, only missed a single payment. states rate of repayment based on my ability to repay. Paragraph 4 states I have not heard since Feb 07 that i have not missed any further payment., I was surprised to recive the latest papers, and quote " I was a little confusedby this as it stated on The Judgement after Determination that a request for re-determination needed to be sent to the County court within 16 days of 27/2/2007"

Para 5 GP spoke to Natwest on 10/12/2008 who confirmed that they had requested re- determination to that the balance be set forthwith so to give them an opportunity to apply for a charging order.

Para 6 I consider this as their way of seeking unfair preferential treatment above my other creditors. I have not missed a payment since Feb 2007

Para 7 I would therefore ask the court to allow me to meet the payments I am able to afford each month by allowing Judgement by installments to remain at (figure per month) which I have never failed to meet payment s each month.

That is more or less the details with my financial details layed out on seperate sheets.

I should finally add that Nat West stated they were applying for a re determination as the length of time of repayment (still over eleven years) was not in their opinion satisfactory.
Thanks in advance for any comments

[Tools]

Re: Worriedanbothered Charging Order

I'm a little confused now W&B

All other issues aside for now, is the next hearing for redetermination or is it for a charging order?

Although it may take time to retype the defence etc, in order to help you to the best of our abilities it is important we have all the information to start with. You also mention you have also written your own "defence" is it possible you could post that up too please. I appreciate it may be a bind posting the information you have but unless we have the facts it is difficult for "ANYONE help with advice as promised when I last made a post".

[Amethyst]

Re: Worriedanbothered Charging Order

From the outline you have put w&B the defence they have written for you sounds fine.

For Tools - I think what Natwest are doing are asking for the judgement to be a forthwith (and installment) order so that they may obtain the charging order. W&B is defending that the installments are being paid fine so theres no need for the charge order.

If W&B misses payments on the Installment order then Natwest could apply for charging order, however if they get permission for a charging order now then if W&B misses an installment Natwest can go to sale order. So thats why they are doing it.


The preferential bit, as GP have all your debt info, should work quite well as a defence to the CO, and the IE showing you are making payments (make sure you take evidence of all the payments with you - i had a pickle with that in court the bank said i had missed one (which I hadnt but didnt have the evidence) and thats how they got their CO granted - pigs)

Going back over how they got the CCJ in the first place I dont think is relevant because the time to deal with that was just after it was granted.