Advice on fighting claimed debt by intrum.

[Drefsab]

Hi guys im after some advice, I am fighting my case with Intrum who are claiming a debt supposed to be owed by me to HSBC that they now claim owed for a Current account, loan and a credit card (so 3 accounts). I sent 2 letters and this is the reply I got... im unsure how I should best reply to this going forward.


I've attached the letter I recived, the key points however is they claim to have not recived letter 1, They claim that they have no documentation for one of the acconts at all even stating that the creditor cannot undertake legal processdings. They claim to be waiting on documentation on the other 2 accounts.


They claim simple statements are sufficent proof of a debt something I dispute because if I do not recognise the accounts/any of the transactions surely that doesnt constitute proof they have the correct person?

Im concerned they claim that they will ignore any corrispondance they deem from a website such as this, obviously I was thinking to add a parragraph on any reply that while I may have used sites for help on the form of my letters my concerns and queries are real and to simply ignore any communication where I am clearly disputing their claims and asking for valid evidence surely is poor practice or against some code of practice. Along with this they sent what seams to be letters from them and HSBC for each account assigning the account over to them, I've never seen these before but surely again thats not proof of anything?

Any help and advice on how I can defend my self on this would be greatly appreciated.

[Amethyst]

Do you have a copy of the letter that you sent to them ? And if so can you redact personal info off and Pat it up please. Then we'll know what they are talking about when they refer to your letter 'having no legal effect'

[Drefsab]

My very first contact was an email to them, after that I got no reply so I did some googling and I sent them this:

"Dear Intrum

In reference to my previous letter to you sent on Tuesday 24^th of September. In which the I note, I do not have any knowledge of the claimed debts or recognize any of the said accounts listed. You have yet to provide any details/evidence I requested so I am writing once again. I hereby request that communication from this point forward be made in writing.

I wish to confirm that your claim against me is lawful. I therefore request that you provide evidence of my liability. I am happy to effect payment should you be able to provide sufficient evidence of the debts you claim:

Please provide verification of your claim, by providing me with true and certified copies (Not photocopies) of the Deed of Assignment (NOT Notice of Assignment) and Deed of Novation. Please also provide me with the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company, who has seen the Original Note and is certifying these assignments as certified copies and that your company now has the Original Note (Credit Agreement) under penalty of perjury and with unlimited liability and confirm that the Note has never been sold prior to your company purchasing this account. Please also confirm the name of the individual who is the duly authorised representative from your company, who has carried out due diligence under The Money Laundering Regulations 2007 and what actions s/he has taken in relation to this account.

On and for the record, I am willing to accept redacted copies of any documents that may contain sensitive commercial data or personal details of other clients providing that evidence relating to myself is apparent.

Please provide this information and documents within fourteen (14) days from the above date, so that I may settle any financial obligation I might lawfully owe.

Should you not be in possession of any of the aforementioned documents then you will be deemed to be party to a fraudulent act and I reserve the right to seek full recourse through the courts of law. Be aware that any default registered prior to this matter being resolved will be disputed.

I also hereby decline any offer to contract with your company, except when subject to the terms mentioned herein.

Your said failure to provide verification of your claim constitutes your agreement to the following terms: that you are a third party interloper; you have no legal standing; no first-hand knowledge of this matter; your claim is fraudulent; any damages I suffer you will be held culpable; you agree to pay all fee schedules; that any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed and that you will no longer pursue this matter any further.
I feel this matter is serious and wish to deal with it in writing again and sending it recorded delivery, I do not give you permission to contact me by telephone. I will be logging the dates and times of your calls and messages and should they continue, I must warn you that they will now constitute ‘harassment' and I may take action under Section 1 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 and the Administration of Justice Act 1970 S.40, which makes it a Criminal Offence for a creditor or a creditor's agent to make demands (for money), which are aimed at causing 'alarm, distress or humiliation', because of their frequency or manner.

Should you provide sufficient evidence that I owe your organization or your client any outstanding amount and that you can provide proof that they have assigned you agency, I should be happy to pay any verified claim in full."

I had no reply to that letter, so then I followed it up with:

"Dear Intrum

I wrote to you on Tuesday 24^th of September and 16th October 2019 requesting verification of your claim. You were requested to send certain documentation so as to validate and verify your claims against me. To date, you have failed to adequately respond or have ignored the contents of that letter. This has resulted in the assumption that you do not have any valid claim and that there is no debt lawfully owed by me to your company.

I wish however to offer you another opportunity to substantiate your claims by forwarding the following documentation: 1. The original instrument of indebtedness, or proof that said instrument still exists. 2. Either of the following; a. If this is a demand for payment under the Bill of Exchange Act 1882, copies of any bi-lateral or tri-lateral contracts which create obligations on each party to perform, including any delegated Instrument of Novation, signed and sealed in a tripartite contract and a signed invoice in accordance with said act OR b. If this is an assignment of a legal thing in action under the Law of Property Act 1925, a Deed of Assignment (not a notice of assignment). This should be executed as a Deed, granted by the grantor or original creditor and endorsed by instrumentary witnesses in solemn form.

In addition, as you have so far failed to substantiate your alleged claim I now also request the following information, to satisfy myself as to the legitimacy of your company: 1. Your registration details with The Financial Conduct Authority 2. Your registration details with The Information Commissioners Office 3. Your Consumer Credit Licence number 4. Your Public Liability Insurance details 5. Your registration details with any other regulatory bodies.

As previously stated, I am willing to accept redacted copies of any documents that may contain sensitive commercial data or personal details of other clients providing that evidence relating to myself is apparent

Should you not be in possession of any of the aforementioned documents, you will be deemed to be party to a fraudulent act and I reserve the right to seek full recourse through the courts of law. Be aware that any default registered prior to this matter being resolved will be disputed.

This verification is required to validate your claim, so that I may settle any financial obligation I might lawfully owe. Your said failure to provide the requested documentation within ten (10) days from the above date will constitute your agreement to the following terms:

1. That you are a third party interloper;
2. That you have no legal standing;
3. That you have no first-hand knowledge of this matter;
4. That your claim is fraudulent;
5. That any damages I suffer, you will be held culpable;
6. That any negative remarks made to a credit reference agency will be removed;
7. You will no longer pursue this matter any further;

I will give you a further fourteen (14) days to respond"

[Drefsab]

Perhaps ive approached this wrong but when I first found out about this issue was someome knocking on my door telling me to talk to Intrum, they told me I owed them for a debt to HSBC for a loan credit card and currenty account that was opened years ago supposedly in my name. This is news to me (I bank with someone else) and the first I've heard from them,

The claim on the phone I lived at another address I used to previously reside at many years ago but stopped living there before these accounts apprently existed. I've lived at my current address for many years now I'm on the electoral role I would not have been hard to find for many years should they have been looking to contact myself (not that I know why they would have a valid reason to contact me).

So I am understandably quite upset and concerned that a debt I had no knowledge of has suddenly landed at my feet, its caused a lot of upset with the family as well as my partner who is a student nurse is very stressed at the fact someone is claiming a debt and the fact someone is knocking on our door about it.

From what I know surely I am within my rights to ask for proof that they have the correct person and that that money is indeed owed to them? So that was the approach I took because they cant have any proof it was me surely it is some kind of mistake. I tried to call HSBC but they said basically they dont have the accounts its Intrum now and if I am indeed not the correct person they couldnt discuss account specifics with me anyway.

[Amethyst]

Guessed it might be that xxx Those letters are, politely, tosh.

copies of any bi-lateral or tri-lateral contracts which create obligations on each party to perform, including any delegated Instrument of Novation, signed and sealed in a tripartite contract and a signed invoice in accordance with said act

ughhh lol

Its okay, just forget what's gone before and let's see what's what to sort this out. Reading back then xx

[Drefsab]

Thank you for your time and help it is much appreciated,

[Amethyst]

The account they have said they cannot get information on - is that the overdraft, credit card or loan account?

The account was opened in 2006 - how long before then had you moved from the address they say the account was opened at ?

Anything at all on your credit file ? If these defaulted over 6 years ago then they may well be statute/time barred anyway.

I would get a Subject Access Request to HSBC. It might show up something or get confirmation that these are not your accounts.

Letter example Subject Access Request Letter

HSBC data protection address - Data Protection Officer, HSBC, P.O. Box 6201, Coventry CV3 9HW

Give them your full name, current address and previous addresses.

[Drefsab]

Hi there, the one they state they can not get information on I think was the credit card account as the refferences on that look like its a card number (the other ones numbers dont seam long enough to be a card number).

[Amethyst]

Daft question possibly - have you ever had any accounts with HSBC ? From what you said previously you haven't and this is a tracing cock up, in which case they will struggle with providing documents, and if they do you'll easily be able to counter them. Do the Subject Access Request to HSBC, they'll either send info or not, and see what Intrum do next. No need to respond back to them again at the moment.

[Drefsab]

I did have an account with them a long time ago back before they were HSBC and I was in secondary school, they had a thing in the classes at lunch time which they called midbank which I think was what HSBC used to be known as but I stopped using that so long ago and at the time way to young to have anything on credit.

So SAR request to HSBC even though they told me its nothing to do with them as the accounts are owned by Intrum? Given the letter I recived gave me 30 days to respond if I've not heard back from HSBC in that time do I inform them of what I am doing/waiting on?

[MIKE770]

MIDLAND Bank prior to take over by HSBC most accounts headed Orchard etc

[Drefsab]

Either way it cant be anything to do with that I think last time I saw that I account I had £2.50 in it no overdraft or anything lent.