** DISCONTINUED ** Lowell Portfolio/Argos Card Services

[MasterCoder]

Afternoon all,

A letter came through the door today from Lowell Solicitors wanting to collect on a debt with Argos under £300. To be honest, I'd forgotten all about this as I've not had any correspondence on this since 2013 and getting a credit report shows that it is to go SB in the summer. Anyway, this is a letter before claim.

Being a dab hand at this now I'll be returning the form requesting the relevant paperwork, CCA, Statements, Default Notice etc. but I have in the past hit original creditors with a SAR request too.

Wanting to get all of my eggs in one basket I called Argos to make the request for information. The first time I called, I went through Security and amazingly, the Argos representative immediately transferred me to Lowell!! I'm on hold and the next thing I'm hearing is you're through to Lowell Financial....I hung up on those clowns and I called Argos back. I get through to another representative and tell them that I do not want to be transferred to the debt purchaser but merely want to make a request for information. I'm told, categorically, that they cannot provide me with anything. They can't provide a CCA, or statements or copies of the default notice. If I have any requests, I need to go to Lowell.

Argos make the argument that they sold the debt, including the paperwork, to Lowell. I have always seen the SAR as an essential tool to keep it honest; I've had issues in the past with DC's that have made up documents to be undone completely by paperwork in a SAR. I've also never had an original creditor flat refuse to provide the information requested. This whole situation is a little frightening in my opinion.

Am I wrong in assuming that as the original creditor, they must not only keep the paperwork and information relating to an account for a fixed period of time but provide it when requested?

Otherwise, Lowell or any other Debt Collector are at liberty to send absolutely anything.

[Amethyst]

It might be worth you making a written subject access request and then, depending on their response, making a complaint, and taking it to the ICO. I mean Argos obviously hold some data of yours for you to get through security and them to know your account has been purchased by Lowell.

Completely agree with your reasoning, all I can think really is because you called and ask specifics about the debt, rather than making a written SAR.... be interesting to see what they do do with a formal SAR letter request. Subject Access Request Letter

Don't forget to say on your letter of claim response that you do not acknowledge any debt to their company, just to protect your statute barred position if the default was only JUST under 6 years ago and no payments were made since.... and of course keep your reply for it to arrive back just within the 30 days, possibly seek advice from CAB as well ....

[MasterCoder]

Thanks Amethyst.

I thought since GDPR came into effect that requests could also be made over the telephone and I wanted to get the ball rolling and get the info as quickly as possible.

I made it abundantly clear on the telephone I was making a request for information but she refused to even engage on getting that paperwork to me. I've listened to the call again, (I recorded the call), and she even says at one point they have the information but if I want it I have to go through Lowell!!? I'm more annoyed by the fact that Argos actually transferred my first call to Lowell!

She did actually give me some information that was useful. The last payment date and amount. Weirdly, according to the CRA's my account was defaulted 8 weeks after that last payment which seems awfully quick and even more reason why I should see all the relevant paperwork.

[Amethyst]

You can do it by phone, but they don't always understand their obligations ( as you found ) - in writing you get their response in writing which is useful if you go forward to making a complaint.

[MasterCoder]

So a little update on this one, Argos actually called me back to apologise to me for the way their team handled my request. They even gave me £50 for the trouble.

The lady I spoke to on the phone said that she'd send everything to me that they have pertaining to me.

Here's the interesting part.

They don't have a credit agreement for me. Nothing. And she says as much in the cover letter. They did however have an application I made months afterwards for a Homebase card that I never took. She's sent me some statements but nothing else. No default notice, no notices of transfer to another company. Nothing.

It begs the question then, if the OC can't provide me with an agreement, what chance does Lowell?

[Amethyst]

Not a lot. You heard anything else from Lowell at all?

[MasterCoder]

Absolutely nothing back from them. To be honest, I've asked for information on this account several times to never actually get a response; not a 'we're looking into this' template letter but outright ignoring the request. It's one main reason why I decided to go straight to the original creditor to get the information. It seemed a little suspect.

The letter from Argos says 'we are unable to locate a copy of your Argos agreement form'. They then mention they have attached a Homebase application/agreement form but have no record of me having a Homebase account.

I'm not sure if they're suggesting that the Homebase one is as good as the Argos one but I'd like to see Lowell try that one on.

[MasterCoder]

So today I get a County Court claim form through the post for this. Unbelievable!

My first port of call was to ask the wife where the recorded delivery reference was but she says she can't find it. I have some suspicions that I'll not elaborate on here and now though....

Amethyst might it be possible to move this thread to the correct category?

Particulars of Claim as follows:

1. The defendant opened an Argos Card Services regulated consumer credit account under reference 'xxxxx' on xx/xx/2011 ('the agreement')
2. In breach of the agreement, the Defendant failed to maintain the required payments and the Agreement was terminated.
3. The agreement was assigned to the claimant on xx/02/2019 and written notice given to the defendant
4. Despite repeated requests for Payment, the sum of £273.91 remains outstanding and the claimant claims:
   • a) The said sum of £xxx,
   • b) interest pursuant to s69 County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of assignment to the date of issue accruing at a daily rate of £0.060 but limited to one year, being £xx.xx
   • c) Costs

The one thing I have in my favour I suppose is the fact that I also hit Argos with the SAR.

As I've noted earlier, there is no agreement since they cannot find that agreement (and I would suspect Lowell would be unable to provide it either).

There are no notice of default or assignment in the SAR package

There is a letter from June 2017 saying that they overcharged me fees to the tune of £29.53p ( and since I have no statement of account from Lowell I cannot verify if this refund has been applied to their figures)

Of course I intend to defend this fully and I am about to file acknowledgement of service.

In terms of defence, am I wise to mention the SAR to Argos and their inability to provide an agreement?

I suspect that Lowell have my request but have filed a claim anyway to keep this alive (it would be SB in a couple of months) and given claims can take months they're playing for time.

Advice appreciated.

[Amethyst]

Not at the moment - did you send a CCA request with £1 to Lowell when you did the reply to the letter of claim ? If not get a standard one off now.

The CPR request you want to amend to repeat that you asked for the documents x,y,z etc in your reply form and haven't had the courtesy of a response which you shall bring to the court's attention ( be useful to have that recorded post info but not fatal if you have lost it )

Do you have any idea if this actually was a Homebase card originally?

[MasterCoder]

This is definitely an Argos Card. The Homebase agreement form they've sent me is an application I made several months after the opening of the Argos account when I needed to do some work around the house. They knocked me back for a Homebase card I might add. They state in the cover letter they have no more information on a Homebase account. They've got nothing.

If it helps I could post a copy of the cover letter from Argos?

I will acknowledge service and extend the deadline. I'll also send the CCA to Lowell but it probably won't get there until Tuesday at least with the Easter holidays.

If they can't source the agreement I suppose they could reconstitute one but that's only for information purposes as I understand it. They couldn't enforce payment without the original document.

Do I need to write to Lowell Solicitors asking why they never bothered to acknowledge my response to their LBA or just add it to the defence when I write it?

[MasterCoder]

Here's a copy of the SAR letter sent to me by Argos.

As you can see, this clearly states they can't locate my Argos agreement.

Furthermore, the POC states the Argos account was opened November 2011 but the Homebase application was made March 2012, processed in April 2012. Worth pointing out that the direct debit mandate on the application isn't completed either.

[Amethyst]

Put in the cpr letter that you asked them for information in preaction but they haven't replied which you shall bring to the attention of the court. Example cpr letter https://legalbeagles.info/library/gu...-of-documents/


Personally Id keep the Argos SAR response to the defence and see what Lowell come up with ( or not ) first

[MasterCoder]

I have a sneaky suspicion that they know they can't get the documentation from Argos either and this was just them stopping the SB clock until such a time as Argos do find it.

The SAR is also missing the default and the assignment notice so I'm going to ask for those too

[Amethyst]

Good. And yes, probably - they still expect people to poo their pants at the sight of a court claim so likely just winging it to stop the clock. You COULD apply later to strike based on non compliance with cpr 31.14 and cca request but see what they come up with xxx

[MasterCoder]

So I've sent the CCA to Lowell and the CPR letter to their solicitors. Both gone signed for. Let's see what they come back with