In trouble with debts due to illness

[scottishlass]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Well, had a nice development yesterday!

I had a letter from Abbey regarding my Cahoot PPI. They have admitted that they mis-sold me the policy, have cancelled the policy as it's useless to me, offered to refund me and also add on top the interest which I asked for on the payments I have made. All I have to do is sign to accept in full and final payment and they'll send me a cheque.

They said in the letter that although I purchased it online and wasn't mis-advised by an advisor, they couldn't satisfy themselves that I had been properly imformed and therefore yes I shouldn't have been sold it. I was quite suprised!

Also had a letter from AA Credit Card offering me the difference of some of my charges inline with the OFT's advice about the £12 charge limit. It's not a lot, and would be a lot higher if I had all the charges back so I'm not sure whether to accept the offer or go for the whole lot now..

I had a similar response from egg credit card, I will have a look for the letter I sent and they repaid all the charges so hang fire on this one.

Good news on the PPI
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Thank you for your letter dated 26th September 2007 in which you offer £16.00 in full an final settlement of my complaint, however, I do not consider this a satisfactory response. I refer to the points raised in your letter as follows;

1. Regardless of whether the credit agreement states that charges will be added to the account if the credit limit is exceeded or fail to make contractual payments, it is the amount of the default charge which is in question.
2. You have been charging me charges that are contrary to the Unfair Terms in the Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999. Schedule 2 (e) of the said regulations gives a non-complete list of the terms which may be regarded as unfair, such as the term that requires me, as a consumer who fails in his obligation, to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation.
   I believe your charges are disproportionately high and therefore they are contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Regulations 1999. In addition I believe that your charges are a Penalty. Penalty charges are irrecoverable at common law. The precedent for this was Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Company Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd (1915) AC 79 along with Murray v Leisure Play (2005) EWCA Civ. 963. It was held that a contractual party can only receive damages for an actual loss or liquidated loss. It is clear that your charges do not reflect any actual and/or real loss.

If your real charges are indeed a genuine pre-estimate of the administrative costs likely to be incurred by you in dealing with defaults then the in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs, I would like you to provide me with a breakdown and proof of all costs involved with regard to your actual or liquidated losses involved in any breach of contract to which these charges relate with yourselves and that these charges reflect the true costs in relation to the said charges and proportionate to the charges levied on my account as defined in the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Schedule 2 (e).I would expect this to include a comparison of all charges levied against all customers and the actual costs incurred by you when those customers default.

1. I refer to your comment regarding the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) default charge threshold of £12.00. I am aware the the OFT have stated that “where there are exceptional business factors... for example where a card issuer has a policy of requiring customers to pay minimum monthly repayments by direct debits, such as that operated by Egg... it may be able to set a fair default fee at a level above the threshold”. However, this does not mean that your £16.00 is considered fair. The OFT state that only a court can decide finally whether a term is unfair.

Therefore I will accept the sum offered as part settlement and on the clear understanding that I will pursue recovery of the remainder, with a County Court claim,if necessary, although I sincerely hope that will not be.


I do hope you respond positively to this letter in order to avoid court proceedings as if this case does go to court you will be aware that you could also be liable for 8% statutory interest on the total amount of charges claimed ( as of today this amounts to £10.18) plus my costs. To clarify, a positive response being no less than an offer of full settlement of all charges incurred on my account.


I am fully aware of many cases that you have settled in full out of court to date and I assume therefore that would be your intention in this case. If that is so, then to allow this claim to get that far may be considered an abuse of the court process, so once again, I respectfully request that you refund the total amount of charges I am claiming.


I will give you 14 days to respond to this letter before taking the matter further.




Yours sincerely,

[Tools]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Well done on the PPI Macca.

As for the credit card charges, I agree, go for the whole lot and not just the difference. The letter SL has posted is good, adapt it to suit your own needs.

[scoobydoo]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

well done so far!

might be worth you doing a summary in your signature - of what you are reclaiming and how you are progressing

[macca]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Thanks SL, that's really helpful. I'll adapt that and send it off and see where I get, I will keep you all posted.

I will amend my sig too

[macca]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Hi Guys,

Need to ask a question regarding this lot.. Just been checking my timelines and out of Cahoot, AA Loan, AA Credit Card and Vanquis Credit Card, only Cahoot have replied in the alotted time with a copy of my CCA.

Where do I stand with them now? Can I just shop them for not doing it when they should have? I made sure I sent all the letters signed for so they've got no argument there.

[Tools]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Hi macca

Have a look at curleyben's letters in here Consumer Credit Agreements - A Guide - Legal Beagles

I suggest you use the letter below but have a good read of that thread before deciding

Originally Posted by Formal Compliant
Formal Complaint
Letter before Action

Dear Sir/Madam,

With reference to my previous letters, I wish to draw you attention to your company's lack of compliance with my legal request.

On **DATE** I made a formal request for a true signed agreement for the alleged account under consumer credit Act 1974 s77/8. A copy of which is enclosed for your perusal and ease of reference.
You have failed to comply with my request, and as such the account entered default on **DATE**.

The document that you are obliged to send me is a true copy of the executed agreement that contained all of the prescribed terms, all other required terms and statutory notices and was signed by both your company and myself as defined in section 61(1) of CCA 74 and subsequent Statutory Instruments. If the executed agreement contained any reference to any other document, you are also obliged to send me a copy of that document.

As you may not be aware , failure to comply with this request within 12 working days renders the alleged debt UNENFORCEABLE in law. Furthermore, if this non-compliance continues for a further month then a summary, criminal offence is committed.

Furthermore you should be aware that a creditor is not permitted to take ANY action against an account whilst it remains in dispute.

The lack of a compliant credit agreement is a very clear dispute and as such the following applies.

* may not demand any payment on the account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.
* may not add further interest or any charges to the account.
* may not pass the account to a third party.
* may not register any information in respect of the account with any credit reference agency.
* may not issue a default notice related to the account.

Therefore this account has become unenforceable at law.

Consequentially any legal action you pursue will be averred as both UNLAWFUL and VEXATIOUS.

After taking advice, I am of the opinion that your continued pursuit is in violation of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 section 40, Protection from harassment Act 1997 section 3 as well as breaching a number of the OFT Collection Guidelines.

I reserve the right to report your actions to any such regulatory authorities as I see fit.
You have 14 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint.

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and I am writing this letter to you on the assumption that you would prefer to do this than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I await your rapid response.

Yours Faithfully

[macca]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Hi Tools,

Thanks for posting that. I've had a read through that post already but it's a little confusing..

What happens if I send that letter and they then produce a compliant CCA?

[Curlyben]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Macca, what are you finding confusing, I should be able to help.
Personally I still operate on the old 12 working days plus a further calendar month before sending out any CCA reminders, as posted by Tools.
This way they have had more than enough time to comply.

You mention the Cahoot agreement, is it compliant.
In other words does it contain all the prescribed terms ??

S61(1)(a) CCA provides that, for a regulated agreement to be properly executed, it must contain all the prescribed terms of the agreement and conform to regulations under s60(1) – see Q1.14.

Reg 6(1) provides that the terms specified in Sch 6 to the Agreements Regulations are ‘prescribed terms’ for the purposes of s61(1)(a) and s127(3) – see Q8.2.

8.2 What if prescribed terms are missing or incorrect?

s127(3) provides that the court may not make an enforcement order unless a document containing all the prescribed terms of the agreement was signed by the debtor – see Q1.21.

If therefore any of the prescribed terms is missing, or incorrect, the agreement is not enforceable against the debtor, and the court is precluded from making an enforcement order.


8.3 What are the prescribed terms?

The prescribed terms specified in Sch 6 are as follows:

* amount of credit – see Q8.

* credit limit – see Q8.5
* repayments – see Q8.9.
* rate of interest – see Q8.6

Sch 6 was not amended by the 2004 Regulations.


Also check out Peter Bard's excellent thread on the subject: Agreement Enforceability - The Consumer Forums

[macca]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Having read that and Peter Bards thread it seems the Cahoot agreement has everything it should do on it.

I'm not sure what was confusing me really, I suppose as to where I stand and what I should do next. It also talked about DCA's and not the original creditors, but I assume it's the same.

It said that I don't actually have to do anything now, just wait as they've already broken the law?

As I said, I sent all the letters signed for so they must have got them, so they can't wriggle out of that? Do I need to make payments towards the accounts at this time or is it a bit of a waiting game to see what their next move is?

[Curlyben]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

If they have exceed the 12 working days then you can cease payments until such time as they comply with your request.

[WendyB]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

but if you are claiming charges, where does the CCA come into it? Thought you couldn't do both?

Curly, explain please to a blonde person.....

[macca]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

I've asked for a breakdown of charges, only Cahoot and AA Credit Card have replied so far and I've tried to claim charges from AA. They offered a settlement of the difference but that's it.

Surely I can still ask for the CCA, and if they can't produce then everything is null and void anyway?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
And yes Curly, they have exceeded the 12 working days by about a week now.

[macca]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Hi All, have been ill for a few weeks and the letters have started coming through again so need to get back on top of this.

Vanquis have offered to refund the charges to my account but have asked that I contact 1st Credit to pay off the balance. I agreed to this and returned the letter, but they have failed to reply to my CCA request. I'm guessing I was a bit silly in signing and returning the letter as now I've kind of admitted to the debt?

[Curlyben]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Good news from Vanquish, but until they produce a valid CCA there is nothing further to say to 1st Credit.
Not to worry there are ways for dealing with bullies, allegedly.

[macca]

Re: In trouble with debts due to illness

Checking through my stuff now, Cahoot have replied with what I believe to be a CCA compliant agreement however they have refused a refund of charges and put me on hold due to the OFT test case, can they do this? I am planning on resuming my monthly payments to them (now minus the PPI charges) and offer to clear the arrears (if any) once the dispute over unfair charges is cleared up.

My AA loan have supplied two CCA's, one for the original loan and one a year later for a re-drawn up loan (not sure what it's called) minus PPI. They sent them 2.5 weeks after the date I should have received them by. They seem to have what they need on them, but the rescheduled one has a hand-written correction where the print for the agreement number was obviously illegible and somebody has touched it up. They have not supplied a breakdown of the charges on the account, which I believe amount to quite a bit. They've had 40 days. They also wrote on the letter which enclosed the copies of the CCA's - "For the avoidance of doubt, the Consumer Credit Act 1974 does not prohibit collection activity when an account is in dispute". Pretty sure that's a lie?

I'm writing back to AA Credit Card to refuse the partial offer and ask for full refund of charges.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
That's good to know, thanks Curlyben