Judgment & Beyond ~ Budgie Vs Capital One

[HaliMac]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

LOL EXC, the "posh totty" that you like wouldn't have been there!

We had to put up with a poker-faced Shami Chakrabarti lookalike :lol:

[Amethyst]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Ahhh ed.

You havent got a copy of the Behrens judgement have you ?

[EXC]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

LOL EXC, the "posh totty" that you like wouldn't have been there!

I do have other interests in life you know Xena...

Halimac, isn't it Rita Chakrabarti, the freedom campaigner?

[HaliMac]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

The very same Civil Rights campaigner, yes - but Rita C. is the BBC reporter - Shami C. is the Director of Liberty. The Barrister was a poker-faced version of the latter

[EXC]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Ahh I got it, Rita is the BBC correspondent and Shami is the director of Liberty - she's a smart gal, unlike Crap 1's barrister.

[HaliMac]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Indeed she is - I'm not entirely in step with some of her views (Reactionary Old B*stard™ that I'm slowly becoming!), but there's something about her that I admire - she's kind of cute, too

[Budgie]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Errrrrr excuse me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slightly off topic or what !!!!!!!!!

I really must have a word with Ame about some spring cleaning on this thread LOL

Hallimac didnt mention the rather Gorgeous brief who arrived 10 minutes before the thicko one that we ended up with. Gorgeous one headed off to another hearing. I believe I commented, about the gorgeous one, that it would be a shame to make her cry !!!!!!!!

OH bugger that's got me started on the off topic stuff now !

[HaliMac]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Now he's hijacking his own thread! LOL :lol:

Just keep your mind on the job in hand, man and stop getting distracted by the girlies

I believe I commented, about the gorgeous one, that it would be a shame to make her cry !!!!!!!!

.... then I said something rather inappropriate :evil:

[Budgie]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Cheeky sod LOL

I am actually working on a to do list.

[Xena]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

[quote=EXC;66104]I do have other interests in life you know Xena...

ROFL.........am teasing you!

Errrrrr excuse me !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Slightly off topic or what !!!!!!!!!

I really must have a word with Ame about some spring cleaning on this thread LOL

Hallimac didnt mention the rather Gorgeous brief who arrived 10 minutes before the thicko one that we ended up with. Gorgeous one headed off to another hearing. I believe I commented, about the gorgeous one, that it would be a shame to make her cry !!!!!!!!

OH bugger that's got me started on the off topic stuff now !

ROFL .....can well believe, what comments you made about the "gorgeous"brief!!!

[TANZARELLI]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Footnote :


Judge Gold is possibly already known to some of you. He was the Judge at centre stage for the following summary of an entertaining day at Kingston County Court posted by Rogerebaker on Cag last year.

full report from an entertaining afternoon at Kingston County Court **MUST READ**
Along with 30-40 others I was at Kingston upon Thames County Court this afternoon for a direction hearing with Barclays bank amongst others.

I know a lot of people are nervous about the possibility of going to court so I took a few notes with a view to reporting back and I must be honest it was a couple of hours of excellent entertainment.

First of all the cast.

The judge was a very well presented and instantly likeable bloke. A bit like Ken Barlow on Coronation Street. It was clear from the start that he wasn’t going to miss the opportunity to entertain in front of what was a capacity crowd in Court Two.

On the front row representing Barclays was a youngish lady in her late twenties looking every inch the up and coming Lawyer, impeccably dressed, hair tied up, small bifocals. She had a huge file in front of her containing the details of all the dreadful people who had the nerve to challenge Barclays.

To her left was a rather distinguished duo who were representing a No win No fee company and subsequently it turned out were representing a significant number of the claimants listed for the day

Directly behind them, relegated to the 2nd row was the rather sad looking figure representing Lloyds TSB. Compared to the snappy dressers in the front row he was clearly 2nd division and if on the off chance your reading this treat yourself to a new tie. No one is going to take you seriously wearing that!!!

The rest of the court room was packed with 30-40 claimants and you could cut the atmosphere with a knife as everyone was thinking the same “ Please don’t let it be me called first”

The first business of the afternoon was to deal with some overspill from the morning involving Lloyds. 3 or 4 cases had clearly been settled as a result of some frantic phone calls during the lunch break. The case names were mentioned and the bloke from Lloyds repeated several times weve settled. There appeared to be a dispute about the account number on one of these cases as the claimant had written the wrong number on his schedule.

Sensing his opportunity the man from Lloyds jumped to his feet shouting “Move to strike out the claim” “Don’t be ridiculous” retorted the judge “just put the correct account number on the schedule” We will settle” mumbled the man from Lloyds somewhat disheartened by his failure.

I personally don’t like to kick a man when he’s down but the judge showed no such sympathy. “Are you a barrister,” he asked “ No he replied” “ A legal clerk” no” “What are you then” asked the judge “ I used to be an old managing clerk”

A slight titter could be heard from the big hitters in ringside seats as the man from Lloyds buried his face in his papers.

Then from nowhere appeared a flighty young lad, plonked himself next to the Barclays barrister and in a lawyer sort of way gained the attention of the Judge. He was representing the bank of Ireland and needed to get away quickly so could he go first.

The judge obliged and the claimant in this case stood up. The flighty man from Ireland informed the judge that everything had been sorted out (They Settled) and the claimant had consented to the case being withdrawn. The judge asked the claimant if he agreed “ absolutely” he replied “I’ve got to get back and open up my pub and by the way there’s a Gin and Tonic waiting for you on the house”

The judge smiled “I better not but I’m sure my clerk could do with one”

Things had started well for the claimants and you could feel the relief in the court.

Next up was Nat West or well they would have been had they turned up. The claimant informed the judge that they had agreed to settle but he hadn’t had the money yet. The judge agreed to an adjournment to allow time for the money to be paid.

The young claimant wasn’t finished there. “Id like to apply for costs” he demanded. The judge didn’t look at all fazed and asked what he would like. Buoyed by this the claimant produced his civil procedure book, no doubt purchased from this site, and started to quote from it.

The judge appeared caught by surprise and stopped him. “ If you are going to start quoting civil procedure rules we are going to have to put you at the end”

The claimant left a bit crest fallen but lived to fight on later in the day.

It was then time for the first of the many Barclays cases. The case was called, the pristine Lady from Barclays flicked to the correct page in her huge file with ruthless efficiency.

Distinguished gent to her left rises and states he represents the claimant.

Pristine Lady states that Barclays have not received a schedule of charges so could not deal with the claim.

Distinguished gent states “that’s a bit surprising as they are stapled to the back of the Form N1 of which you have a copy”

Judge agrees and there is an uncomfortable silence as the pristine lady ruffles thru her papers.

“Ill have to take instructions”

“You do that” states the judge!! Adjourned for Barclays to get their Act together.

Then followed about 7 or 8 Barclays cases with the same outcome.

"No schedule of charges" she muttered.

I’ve sent them to you a hundred times shouted the claimant.

"Ill have to take instructions" ever more quietly

Then came the first mention of expenses from one of the claimants. “I’ve had to take a day of work to come here can I claim costs”.

The judge seemed receptive “What is your job” he asked

“Telephonist” she replied

How long have you been here?

“3 hours”

How much do you earn?

“£7 an hour”.

“That seems reasonable to me costs awarded £21”.

You could here the cogs werring in the brains of the claimants as they sniffed an opportunity.

Every case after that the opportunity for costs was ruthlessly exploited

“What do you do for a living sir?”

“Consultant sir” states the defendant

“How much do you earn an hour?”

“£50” stated the defendant

“How long have you been here?”

“Since this morning sir”

“£270 costs awarded”

“What about my car park bill that’s another £10”

“£280 costs awarded.”

One optimistic claimant even tried to get Barclays to pay for the possibility that she may be clamped in the local car park.

That was one step to far for the ever-generous judge who with a wry smile politely refused.

Next up Abbey National. Several defendants were awarded judgements and costs on an ever-increasing scale as Abbey couldn’t be bothered to turn up

Even the man from Lloyds was joining in the party. Realising that he was on the wrong side of a bit of a hiding he started advising one of the Abbey national claimants on how to calculate 8%.

One claimant from alliance and Leicester (Who also failed to turn up) was despatched from the court by the judge to find a calculator so he could add up the daily interest rate.

amongst the carnage There were a few successes for the banks

A couple of Barclay’s claimants failed to turn up and their claim was struck out. The not so pristine lady from Barclays asked for costs.

“How much do you earn” asked the judge.

Surly she wasn’t going to answer !! She muttered, stumbled then came out with the old favourite “ Ill have to take instructions”

The judge took sympathy on her and adjourned the hearing pending costs.

A couple of other significant things happened.

Alliance and Leicester had written to the judge stating they were going to defend one claim. The defendant was furious.

“They should have been here then” he snorted.

The judge with another crippling blow ordered full disclosure by the A & L within 14 days or their defence would be struck out

He calmed the claimant by informing him that he need do nothing and he should expect some sort of offer of settlement as soon as they receive that letter.

Several claimants asked if members of their family could speak on their behalf and this was allowed although to be honest it wasn’t necessary.

I left the court just after 3.30 having witnessed a complete route of the banks on almost all fronts.

Lessons learnt.

Don’t be afraid of the court

Do turn up

Have all your paperwork with you

Work out your costs and settlement figure before hand


I know this is only one court in one part of the country but hopefully this will encourage everyone to keep at it.

Loved reading that account, have read this or something similar before lol you couldn't have scripted it better, I would have loved to have been at that one.

[Budgie]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Action / To do List

1) Await official orders from Judge - Will post up here when received.

2) Keep eye on post and or await phone call from Capital One with huge settlement offer. LOL

3) Need to send letter to Capital One in response to their letter dated 5th June 2008. Requesting :-
a) A properly executed copy of my Credit Card agreement, the copy of the application form that they recently sent me is not acceptable as such. Question should I do this as a proper CCA request?
b) Copies of the terms and conditions purported to be supplied at that time together with any subsequant amendments to these terms and conditions until they reflect current terms. ( The copy of the 2004 conditions that they sent me is not acceptable as such ).
c) Copies of the currently unsupplied statements of the account covering the period Feb 2008 to June 2008.
d) Details and copies of any information covering the purported sale of the debt to Lowell.
e) Confirmation that money they claim to have credited to my account has been removed in light of my refusal of their proposed gesture of goodwill settlement on 28th April 2008. They have already confirmed in writing that they have received back the cheques I returned to them.

4) Start to draft WS covering the two points that Judge has limited the WS to concern
a) The supposed payment made by Cap One - easy to document in my WS
b) Wether the Claimant is entitled to simple or compound interest ( LOL - basically a full statement of evidence because as far as I am concerned my total claim remains outsanding as I have not or will not accepted any partial payment from Cap One.
5) Skeletal arguments ( Hmmmm - research needed - What makes a good skeletal argument presentation ) Easy for thicko Cap One Barristers to follow.

Both WS and Skeletals have to be filed at Court before 30th July 2008.

6) Urgent consideration to be given to sending revised Draft Order to Court in light of acceptance by Court of Cap One's amended defence. Need to consider best way of doing this and exactly what to include. Suggestions welcomed. Obvious one of course is full disclosure regarding default charges.

[Budgie]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Just found this on the 1999 Capital One website

will I need to sign anything?
Should your application be successful we will send you an agreement that you will need to read & sign before we can send your card.

Link : http://web.archive.org/web/200011190...rch/index.html

Will be useful for my letter

[Budgie]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Quick update as of today.

I haven't yet received official copy of Judges orders following the application hearing on the 18th June, I chased th Court and these are apparantly being typed. Delay is due to the fact that Judge hand wrote his orders on a scrap of paper and the Clerk can;t make out his handwriting. Great !

I sent off a fax to Capital One yesterday chasing for

1) Copy of terms and conditions from when I opened the account. They had previouslyy sent me copy of my signed application form only. This refers to T + C's overleaf, but overleaf was missing.
2) Missing statements from Feb 08 to present date
3) Confirmation that they had reversed the payment made to my account, they have already confirmed that they received back the cheques they sent me.
4) Details of the account sale to Lowell back in December 2006

I also added a couple of lines to thank them for the statements they had sent me which had been missing in the original response to my SAR. These statements detailed a further £120 of charges that I had not included in the original claim so I informed them that I would be requesting the Court's permission to vary my claim by adding these additional charges ( plus compound interest LOL ).

In the post today ( sent on 20th June ) I received the following :-

a) Copy of original terms and conditions from 1999 ( I will scan and psot these up later ). These appear to be the correct T+C's from 1999. Looks like the CCA is enforcable ( although that wasn't the main reason for requesting the original agreement and T+C's ) I wanted to have an exact copy of the T+C's in support of my allegation regarding the penalty aspect of their default charges.

b) Copy of a letter dated 5th Jan 2007 from Lowell Portfolio to me confirming that they had PURCHASED my Account from Capital One. I will scan and post this up later today. OK this goes part of the way. I will send another fax to Capital One today requesting full details of the Sale ( ie how much they sold it for !!!!!, should be interesting !!). I will also send a SAR to Lowell today as well and see what that turns up LOL.

Budgie

[Budgie]

Re: Budgie Vs Capital One

Quick update.

Final hearing date has been chnaged to 12th September so as to accomodate a 4 hour hearing LOL

I now have until 20th July ( yes 20th July ), which is a Sunday, to submit my witness statement and skeletal arguments in preparation for the final hearing. Capital One have to do the same !!!!!!!!!!!!

I guess I am gonna be a busy Budgie for the next few days. Will post up bits and pieces for comments and suggestions as I generate them.

Even though it is highly likely that Cap One will settle up beforehand I cannot NOT submit my documents to Court. What a Bummer !!!