Me -v- Cap1

[Curlyben]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

I'm not surprised that you have seen most of the letters before as I've been doing this for a while.
In all honesty Cap1 firmly believe that what they have supplied is fully enforceable, we know different.
You have already pointed out their failings, so there really isn't anything further to say to them.
They wont simply roll over, but sell it on to a DCA, often Lowell, and then the fun starts.

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

So, am I right in thinking that you're advice is just leave it and wait till I hear from a DCA, rather than letting them know that I'm aware the agreement isn't enforceable and trying for a F&F? I thought that perhaps they would rather get something for it as opposed to nothing? - although I think their arrogance will probably get in the way of their admitting anything ;-)

[Curlyben]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

You can try a F&F, anything is worth a go, but they are likely to ignore you.
Seems to be their MO.
They'd rather get 20% from a DCA then 70% from the debtor.
Odd but true.

The case concerning a gift is Wilson Vs FCT at Appeals:

Wilson v First County Trust Ltd

[2001] EWCA Civ 633
COURT OF APPEAL, CIVIL DIVISION
SIR ANDREW MORRITT V-C, CHADWICK AND RIX LJJ

[26] page 10


In effect, the creditor--by failing to ensure that he obtained a document signed by the debtor which contained all the prescribed terms--must (in the light of the provisions in ss 65(1) and 127(3) of the 1974 Act) be taken to have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan moneys to the debtor. The creditor had chosen to part with the moneys in circumstances in which it was never entitled to have them repaid; so there is nothing to engage the rights guaranteed by art 1 of the First Protocol. Nor, on that analysis, does the creditor have any civil rights in respect of which it is entitled to a fair and public hearing by an independent and impartial tribunal.

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

Thanks for your input CB - I shall mull it over for the next few days.

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

OK. Have spent some time thinking, and I think I'd like to write letting them know that I'm aware the agreement isn't enforceable, and offering to negotiate a full and final. As you say, I'm pretty sure they'll ignore it, but if ever they do try to take me to Court, I can at least (I hope) show I've been fair.

I've adjusted the letter a little, as below.

Quote...

Thank you for eventually sending the information requested.

I now understand Capital One’s reluctance to send a true copy of what is supposed to be a correctly executed credit agreement, indeed procrastinating for over 6 months. As you must realise, without ALL of the prescribed terms within the signature document, the supposed agreement is totally unenforceable, and also Capital One HAVE NOT provided a fully executed enforceable credit agreement, as requested under s77/78.

As you must realise, this agreement is unenforceable at law. Similarly, by failing to ensure that the signed agreement contained all the prescribed terms it must be taken that Capital One have made a voluntary disposition, or gift, of the loan moneys, please see Wilson –v- First County Trust for further clarification. Further, as the agreement was not executed correctly, Capital One was not obliged to levy either interest or charges, both of which have been paid by me. Using the information provided by Capital One, a total of £2,658.55 has been added to this account in interest and charges, since the account was granted.

In an effort to bring this matter to a speedy conclusion, I am prepared to offer, without prejudice, in full and final settlement of the account the remaining amount after the charges of £2,658.55 have been removed.

This offer is valid for 14 days from the date of this letter, so your earliest response would be appreciated.

Yours faithfully
end quote.

Is there anything in there that could come back to bite me on the bum, so to speak??

Forgot to add, another reason for wanting to get this sorted asap is to avoid someone turning up unannounced. I know they're not supposed to, but I'm under the impression that it's likely to happen. We run a public house, so it would be very difficult to stop a DCA entering the property, and the last thing we want is a 'scene' in the bar.

Many thanks CB.

[Curlyben]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

You MUST specify exactly how much you are offering.

Forgot to add, another reason for wanting to get this sorted asap is to avoid someone turning up unannounced. I know they're not supposed to, but I'm under the impression that it's likely to happen. We run a public house, so it would be very difficult to stop a DCA entering the property, and the last thing we want is a 'scene' in the bar.

hehehe, NOT gonna happen.

I have wasted alot of good tea and cake waiting for DCA's to arrive

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

lol CB, hope you still ate the cake ;-)

OK, I shall find the latest balance statement, and calculate what is owing. I've no doubt they shall ignore it, but at least I can say I tried.

:-D

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

I shall hopefully send a letter next week, moving house tomorrow, and haven't got t'internet ready at the new one (not giving up the pub, just giving up living here). Once I'm sorted I'll be back. :-)

[Curlyben]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

Don't forget to get a mail redirect sorted out, can be very helpful.

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

Thanks CB. We're not giving up the pub, so all mail will still be delivered here.

It's complicated, but I shall be moving, but husband has to live at pub, mainly for security. Unfortunately, my health is being badly affected by the way of life, hence the move.

Actually, I was just doing the calculations for the 'balance'. And I think I've now decided to keep the F&F offer under wraps for now. I'm still undecided, but i'm sure an extra few days pondering won't make much difference.

Thanks for your continuing help - I shall hopefully be back on-line soon, and will post any developments asap.

[Curlyben]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

No worries, take it easy.

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

Good evening :-)

Finally, have to devote some time to this again now, as Fredericksons have been on the phone chasing.

I've not sent any correspondence to Carp1 since their response to my SAR. As mentioned above, I decided (admittedly for financial reasons) to keep any F&F offer to myself for the time being.

I had originally got rid of Fredericksons (I thought) by writing and telling them the account was in dispute, with Carp1 not responding to my SAR. However, now that I've received the requested information, albeit an unenforceable agreement, I'm not sure what to say to Fredericksons. I need to write something, but I'm not sure what.

Any assistance available please?

Many thanks in advance. :-)

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

Have received a letter from Fredricksons, the usual 'we are acting on behalf of Cap1' blah blah. Now I know I should respond, and was wondering if there is already a specific letter to send given the agreement provided has not been drawn up correctly.

I've had a look through the letters on here, but am not totally sure if there is a specific one to use, or indeed whether I should draft one specific to my situation?

Any further help greatly appreciated.

[flooz]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

Good evening everyone - Trouble (me) is here again :tung:

I have drafted a letter to Fredricksons, using bits and pieces found on other letters, and would appreciate if someone could glance their eye over it for me.

Quote....

Dear Sir or Madam

Account number: ............... – Capital One Bank (Europe) plc

I refer to your letter dated 28th May 2010 and respectfully request you refer to my previous letters under your reference CAP/...........

As previously advised, this account is in dispute. Capital One have failed to provide a correctly executed agreement. As you are aware, any agreement that is not properly documented is totally unenforceable. Further, any continuing attempts to pursue or harass me over this account will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, Trading Standards and the Financial Ombudsman.

I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

Finally, please ensure that any contact by yourselves is made in writing only to the above address. Telephone calls and personal visits will not be accepted and will be viewed as harassment.

Yours faithfully

.... end quote

[Zazen.Warrior]

Re: Me -v- Cap1

I realise this is an old post but once you have made your position clear there is no need to keep repeating yourself. My letter would have been along the lines of:


Dear (whoever is unlawfully harassing you)


I am in receipt of your letter dated DATE . I have noted its' content and forwarded a copy to the regulator.

I refer you to my letter of DATE which was my final response in this matter.

In the circumstances I feel no further correspondence can be entered into.

I trust this outlines my position clearly enough for you.

Kind regards



An Alleged Debtor