HSBC & D.G

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

so there is no CCJ, shock horror.

HSBC are after the payments you were making on your loan going towards the c/card debt.

The order from the court

''Have received to-day letter from Northampton CCBC giving notice of transfer of proceedings to local conty court for enforcement,''


was that on the courts own motion ?

Local court office did not say, but all I was informed is that original application was invalid and returned to DG. In December 2009 DG rang to ask if my circumstances had changed , I said yes I am now retired, okay was the answer, also my comment to him at the time was " That had I known what I knew now they would not of got away with what they did", Court Clerk said that the case was Stayed in August, therefore no further action until/if DG make a move.

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Would I, if they should persist have a chance to alter original plea in light of the information and lies DG came out with before it was presented to court, also I could request CCA evidence etc???? or would the court just snowball the original through, I have made a spreadsheet of payments to them.??

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Have found some interesting Guidelines on F.O.S. site regarding Debt Collection: -

Para: 2.4 sub para "d" reads: - Falsely implying or stating that action has been taken when it has not, for example: That Civil Action has been taken or that A Court Judgment has already been obtained.

UNDER FALSE representation of authority and/or Legal Position. page 4 sub *8

Might be one under my belt against D.G Solicitors for action if necessary??? any comments pls.???

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

ahh right, the october final demand will probably cover the preaction protocols.

Yep you probably want to look at default notices etc, but first thing is to find out what they are actually going to try enforcing and counter that.

Have found Default Notice under section 87 (1) of Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Dated 19th August 2008 to rectify and clear overdue amount by 02 September 2008.
I s default notice faulty????? - Final Demand was dated 9th October 2008.

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Have found Default Notice under section 87 (1) of Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Dated 19th August 2008 to rectify and clear overdue amount by 02 September 2008.
I s default notice faulty????? - Final Demand was dated 9th October 2008.

Anybody can comment on time scale above????

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Have found Default Notice under section 87 (1) of Consumer Credit Act 1974 - Dated 19th August 2008 to rectify and clear overdue amount by 02 September 2008.
I s default notice faulty????? - Final Demand was dated 9th October 2008.

Well the deault notice gave me 7 working days to rectify or there abouts, clever HSBC, therefore faulty, time includes Bank Holiday Monday.??

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

After all this time I have been paying HSBC (D.G.) and the case set aside, after D.G false statement that a CCJ has been obtained when it turned out it had not, I have to-day received a Judgement for claimant stating I have made an offer of payment which the claimant has accepted (I have been paying 50.00 per month + plus other credits have been done on this alledged account like credit card charges _car insurance refunds,

a figure of GBP 8,633.75 for debt + GBP345.oo for cost less GBP1,400.oo already repaid = GBP7,578.75 left to pay @ GBP40.00 per month (I had been paying GBP50.00 every month..

They state repaid GBP1,400.00 so far my spreadsheet shows GBP1,830.40 repaid to them.

Should the court have informed me the set aside was being dealt with as to be honest at the time I agreed with everything as recovering fro Heart Attack and panicking, I had if ever they tried, to resubmit a defence in that CCA correct? default incorrect., is their a way to challenge? also DG sols falsely stating a CCJ had been obtained when it had not in 2010 as per OFT guidelines, , and why court issue CCJ when payment are up to date as agreed and more than would have been at this point,

Help/advice would be appreciated.

The original Claim Form stated:-

Amount claimed - 8823.54
Court fee - 190.00
Sol Costs - 100.00
Total: - 9113.54.

also on monthly statement HSBC were adding whole minimum repayments on the months I could not pay them not just the interest element to add the alledged debt up (meaning whole figure not just the interest figure to the account to push the figure up).

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

What a day, seems to of all happened as we know, o.k. try to get to T Court to-morrow for info.

I also heard from Consumer net/ashworth law, after all this time reference PPI reclaim,
withdrawing as little chance of success. o.k. I know I had a claims from PPI 1 month or just over, but HSBC rep told me all eventualities, so I could not go back full time as employer stopped me, PPI was added to original loan, and they would not cancel it when I asked them, thats it on that then.

Update for anyone interested, Ashworth Law, (for Consumer Net) withdrew, guess what I immediatly informed HSBC they no longer dealing with case, I will be dealing with it, they paid out near immediatly . Do the job yourself!!!

Thought I had updated thread last year.

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Have sent Letters/Final response to my complaint from HSBC to F.O.S. to-day, including copy of comms log stating unable to find CCA and a relevant letter stating might be held manually somewhere in a system not electronically and they are sure they adhere to I.C.O guidelines, I.CO. have been informed as well.

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

well response from FOS regarding complaint about HSBC their stripes do not change colour, HSBC state to them no CCA held but a court can view a CCA and could make enforceable?? ( YES cannot find one BUT court can rule on it - must conjure one out of thin air), default incorrect well if you did not pay up it would not matter as the situation would be the same,

ICO response is that HSBC admit failings in SAR return times and have taken necessary steps to correct time scales, so complaint not held, no slap wrist, A SAR request for ALL documents held etc is not all documents held as a CCA is a seperate request ( is a CCA of a different specie of paper records held? makes you wonder about these regulators, they must of gone to the dentist and had their teeth out as no Bite On guidelines being ignored),,.

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Long time and different events, so back to HSBC and their CCJ which after failing to submit SAR details on time i..e. the 2nd batch held the information which I could of used against them which was:- they are unable to find a CCA1974 in respect of the credit card account, they seem to have thru DJ a CCJ which obtained thru tactics of non disclosure on time for set aside hearing, the DJ was sent an E-Mail to the effect during the time the so called Obdudsman was investigating original complaint>

after complaints to Solicitors Authority etc etc and giving the documentation - nothing more heard, except a letter from HSBC legal litigation team stating DG are no longer dealing with this case and that the Litigation team are, no more heard after that> this letter arrived early this year, the CCJ was 2011.

The original set aside was requested for no CCA produced also faulty default notice, (de-minimus) DJ agreed but the DJ allowed the default notice after it was pointed out that I was the one bringing the set aside application therefore the White book says it is allowed? I had also originally admitted the claim yet I refutted but used wrong CPR rule.

-== Law for one but not for the other.

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Thinking of contacting litigation team, and making a formal complaint about obtaining a CCJ without the evidence of a CCA1974 which after set aside case (refused) Comm Log showed no CCA1974 found, againsCPR section 127 & section 61 etc????? any view appreciated>

[Amethyst]

Re: HSBC & D.G

Hi Mike Sorry I'm a bit lost on your case, though if you have that 2010 letter from DG Solicitors that says there is a CCJ when there wasn't, the FCA might be quite interested in it

So after that they did get a CCJ as you made an admission and offer to pay, which you then tried to set aside, and failed.

?? Can you do a brief timeline for me like this just so I can see better what's happened and when and where we are at.

1) received claim on XXX
2) entered admission etc
3) judgment
.....
6) sent cca request
.....
9) applied for set aside...

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

will find the file

[MIKE770]

Re: HSBC & D.G

8/02/2008 Went into Hospital Heart attack.

12/02/2008 Left Hospital

02/03/2008 or there abouts, back to work but was put on short time 16 hours from 48 hours.
struggled thru and later could not keep up with all the Bills.

19/08/2008 HSBC issued Default notice, clear by 02/09/2008. (Note Bank Holiday not allowed for).

09/10/2008 HSBC issued Final Demand.

14/11/2008 letter thanks for contacting us fill in I&E.

Nov 2008 sent I&E Off to HSBC,, (wish I sent Recorded Delivery)

Nov 2008 had a telcon HSBC just as I was off to work, give us details now, it will only take a few minutes, but after 10 minutes the caller got uptight and said I was wasting his time because I could not remember each actual payment etc I have to make by the correct amount, I told him that I had to get to work as i AM NOW LATE, HE SAID "You will regret This".

30/12/2008 Letter account to Metropolitan.

31/12/2008 letter from Metropolitan pay up within 7 days, or set D.G. Solicitors on you.

08/01/2009 12.50 p.m. telecom from chap called Dxx from Metro, spoke about the payments of £50.00 I had been paying since Nov 2008 as I had told in the I&E letter I had sent ( they say they never got)? He said no record would I send proof which I duly did, for Nov/Dec, he also mentioned not to pay HSBC from now on just to them, arrangement for a paying card to be made in favour of Metro.

16/01/2009 letter D.G. Solicitors, failed to repay debt, to take legal action against you, to prevent this pay the full amount by debit or credit card within 7 days. If you need time to pay we may be able to arrange this. telephone us on xxx-xxx so I rang and spoke to a chap called xxxxx xxxxxxx, told him I was already paying £50.00 a month due to circumstances and that Metro new this as I forwarded as requested the necessary evidence, but the agreement was by phone not in writing.

27/01/2009 Sent a letter referring to the telephone call to xxxxx xxxx
will be trying to sell the house so maybe in a position soon to clear, also I enclosed the documents as requested but had to find a couple more payment receipts, in the meantime I will continue to to pay the £50.00 per month.

February on/about 8th received Form N1 from Northampton C.C. so I filled it in and sent back to D.G.Sols, admitting the charge. (panicked|)

02/03/2009 letter from D.G stating that a County Court Judgment had been obtained and that £50.00 per month had to be paid. Rang them and stated what I had received and all they said was a payment card will be coming to make payments thru pay point. and took another payment over the phone.

16/05/2009 I wrote about Default charges.

22/05/2009 HSBC responded with letter about Charges. and offered goodwill repayment of £xxx.xx. which was taken off the amount owed on card.

04/01/2010 Notice of Transfer of Proceedings from Northampton to local court.

14/01/2010 E.mail from to Northampton, regarding the transfer & the fact I had been told it had been dealt with by D.G. Sols, The response was " Please Note that no judgment was entered at Northampton CCBC up until the date of transfer. the claimant made a request however it was rejected as Invalid. The case is now held at xxxxxxx court, should the case proceed or judgment be entered there they will send notice in writing." Quote:-

19/09/2011 A judgment for claimant was received by me, to pay £40.00 per month.

27/09/2011 I sent a SAR request to HSBC including within a copy of CCA1974.

27/09/2011 Letter to D.G. Sols queering the judgment amount? attaching spread sheet of my payments to them.

27/09/2011 letter that date D.G. sol!s state your offer to pay £40.00 per month is accepted. subject to:- 3rd of months. Note:- this arrangement is a concession and is subject to payments being received by the due date. It is open to review at any time. If you do not make payments in accordance with this arrangement we can take further action. and more cost.

05/10/2011 Letter D.G enclosed a statement of account as requested i.e. against the one I sent.

12/10/2011 HSBC letter reference SAR request,being accepted on 3rd October 2011, I rang HSBC and spoke to xx xxx xxx and pointed out 40 days would be up on the 7th November not 11th November as they state, as they signed for the SAR request on 29th September 2011 not 3rd October 2011. She could not do anything about it.

I completed a complaint to the ICO on line with all the details.

04/10/2011 A set aside application was sent to court, quote:- The case is to whether the claimant have proved without doubt that the alleged figures are correct and that a (Legal Agreement) was in place? The figures quoted are disputed as a spreadsheet submitted to claimant showed different to those alleged.

13/10/2011 Notice of hearing raised to be PM 24th October 2011.
A defence statement was submitted by myself, stating I wish for set aside and withdraw the admittance in the N1, also there was Default issues, quoting Brandon Case, also that proof of the alleged debt (Agreement).

24/10/2011 A hearing took place, and after arguments the DJ Stated that a hearing will take place on the 10th November 2011 @ 10.15hrs , The claimant to file statement setting out the sums due and any as at to-days date as at 19th October 2011 by 4.p.m. 7th November 2011.

31/10/2011 A letter to Julian Howells at HSBC Coventry, with formal complaint and listing the issues from Feb 8th 2008 thru.

03/11/2011 D.G. letter referencing my application for set aside., witness statement, (full of apologies) to the court for all the mistakes they have made.

26/10/2011 General form of Judgment or Order was sent to me:- hearing on 10th November 2011 a.m.

28/10/2011 Letter from FOS ack complaint.

09/11/2011 letter HSBC SAR pack part 1, with it a paragraph your Credit Card agreement this is not held electronically or in a manual filing system. if it is held, it will be in a manual format bin a non relevant filing system, (as defined by the Data Protection Act 1998), We are satisfied that our search procedure meets the information Commissioners guidance.

On/about 16th NOVEMBER 2011 Part 2 of SAR arrived with a letter attached:- Further to our letter 9th November 2011, please find enclosed additional personal information that is held about your HSBC credit card. I apologise for the delay in despatching these documents,. This was due to a technical with the production of the report., within which is a sheet stating Quote:- "Unable to locate any credit agreement."!!!!????

16/11/2011 General form of judgment or order: -

Upon hearing the Defendant in person and hearing the Solicitor for the claimant and noting that judgment was entered as admission by the Defendant, and there is no application to set aside the admission:-

1. It is ordered that ;-

1. The application be dismissed.
2. The proceedings be stayed until the 10th January 2012, when it hoped that the Ombudsman and customer relations of HSBC will have considered the case, Parties to advise the Court by 10th January 2012 as to the outcome.
3. The Judgment debt be amended to £x.xxx.xx .
4. The Defendant to pay the claimant assessed cost of £xxx.xx to be added to the judgment debt. dtd 10 November 2012.


NOTE:- The wrong CPR was used by me as given, and that I was not allowed to make the mistake and change it to read CPR 14.1 which should of been used.

18/11/2011 Letter from HSBC regarding my complaints. not upheld.

25/11/2011 Letters sent to FOS by me.

30/12/2011 Letter from me to the D.J AT COURT stating that the deadline of 10th January 2012 would not be met by FOS etc and enclosed their letters, also mentioned that I will not be in the area for 3 months until the end of March 2012.

28/02/2012 FOS e.mail me advising I inform the D. Judge that I will be away until late March 2012, and the investigation is ongoing.

28/02/2012 Sent E.Mail to County court informing them of case No also that as advised by the FOS that I am away until late March 2012.,

28/02/2012 Auto Response from local court acknowledging E.Mail and could take up to ten days for any response!

NOTE:- Never heard anymore after that one.

Now received E.MAIL from FOS the Ombudsman stating that they do not uphold my complaints, as they are up to the court basically, as they do not look into the legal side.

so all in all I need to get prepared to contact the court when the letter arrives. also get the next stage ready, as they have stated now they cannot find an agreement. and the default situation.


comments please?

DJ quoted from my Brandon Citation to HSBC solicitor who D.G. had not informed of my defence statement, I gave him a copy, then he had anticipated from earlier conversation at the last hearing and basically quote from White Book CPR rules (40.1) of civil procedures, as I had admitted in the 1st place the CPR I used was incorrect and the DJ said she had to agree then, I should of quoted another set aside CPR (14.1) (1), regarding admission.m, also Brandon was the claimant, and I was the defendant so CPR supersedes the judgment, the DJ on summing up said the CCJ stays, BUT STAYED for 2 months because the FOS are investigating a complaint from me, and to inform the court any deliberation, I had also pointed out having trouble with HSBC over SAR request timings as it should of been here fully by now.

Note: - The ICO upheld my complaint and stated that HSBC Had assured them that the practice of issuance of SAR request within the allotted time (40 DAYS)will be adhered to and the necessary changes to procedures are now in place, another sorry from them.

Re: HSBC CREDIT CARD

On the day I returned from court in the afternoon I received pack 2 SAR, which should of been received by the 7th November 2011, in amongst the contents of dribble and logs with scribbling out stating irrelevant to the credit card? was a sheet which States That A Consumer Credit Agreement Could not be Found.