reconstucted CCA has error

[sunshine111]

Hi some advise on this please.

i have started reading through the info supplied as part of my SARs and CCA request. apart from the SARs info being incomplete, i have noted from the SARs info that the recon supplied as a true copy for an agreement made in 1997 states that the minimum credit limit is £2,500. however my SARs memoline trans clearly states that the initial credit limit was substantially less than this and gives the dates when the credit limit were eventually changed.

how can this then be a true copy?

i have also tried to find out online without success the address for LLoyds card services in 1997 and the interest rates for this time and APR. however on the recon the APR details stated start from £2,500 and not the credit limit allowed to me at the time. would this breach prescribed terms?

any advice appreciated.

[gravytrain]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

They should have sent you a copy of the terms that were in place when you signed the agreement, under a CA request, so in that respect the section 78 request would not have been complied with.

They can of course remedy this by sending the correct details. More importantly it may indicate that they do not have a copy of the original agreement, which would cause the problems should they attempt to enforce.

[sunshine111]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

Hi Gravytrain

i have repeatedly tried to get them to send a copy of original agreement, CA 78 request, SARS and CPR, all they keep saying is that they cannot locate it (at the moment) and send recons!.

they are trying to enforce on the recon (without signature) and errors, and are applying for a summary judgement.
When would I notify them that the recon is erroneous?
Now, (via my original CA 78 - they have already written to say that they will not communicate further on the matter, and quoting the Carey case) or
In response to the summary judgement as part of my defence.

i have followed up on my SARs trying to pin them down on if they are still looking for the original, and what steps they are taking to try to find it - without letting them know about the errors, as the matter is going to court im not sure that they can be bothered to respond.

what is the position on the DCA coming up with the correct T&C's 3 days prior to a summary hearing date? as i understand it, they have to provide their evidence on application; but they will also be given the opportunity to respond to any defence i put forward.

Would this give them the opportunity to supply new/correct documents as evidence at this late stage? - however not enough time for me to double check!! they have already insisted on at least 3 occasions that the recon they have already provided is the right one and the one that applies, who is to say that unless they come up with the original any new evidence(!!!) would be correct and meet the CA 78?

Could I ask for adjournment to seek advice on any new evidence provided by them, or would i request this under 'directions'?

any idea how i find out about their address back then, rates of interest and APRs?

really sorry to be taking up so much of the forums time - i have been on line to try and find out this info, but i dont think i am asking google the right questions so cant get the info i require.

[gravytrain]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

I take it you have filed your defense, and stated that you are putting them to proof that any enforceable agreement was signed, and that this agreement contained all the terms and conditions required in order for an enforcement order to be granted. So this is a section 61 65 127 issue, in that they would have to produce the actual original signed document.(in theory)

Your secondary defense would be in my opinion that no compliant copy has been received, as the terms were not those that were in place at execution of the agreement. This is your section 78 issue.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

i have followed up on my SARs trying to pin them down on if they are still looking for the original, and what steps they are taking to try to find it - without letting them know about the errors, as the matter is going to court im not sure that they can be bothered to respond.

The SAR is a request under the Data Protection Act of all data held about yourself, this is totally separate from a s.78 request for your agreement under the Consumer Credit Act. Some SAR responses I know state that no terms have to be supplied as they are not personal data.

what is the position on the DCA coming up with the correct T&C's 3 days prior to a summary hearing date? as i understand it, they have to provide their evidence on application; but they will also be given the opportunity to respond to any defence i put forward.

Would this give them the opportunity to supply new/correct documents as evidence at this late stage? - however not enough time for me to double check!! they have already insisted on at least 3 occasions that the recon they have already provided is the right one and the one that applies, who is to say that unless they come up with the original any new evidence(!!!) would be correct and meet the CA 78?

A DCA is not very likely to come up with the right terms because the are not the original creditor and can't just look through their old files, anything they present will have to be obtained from the creditor. It's up to you to challenge what they have supplied. Do you remember how you applied for this account? Over the phone? by post? in branch? Did you fill out an application form from a magazine or advert? I know it's a long time but if you can make the point that the terms supplied couldn't have been there at the time you applied, they will have to show otherwise, and a DCA (as opposed to the OC) will have a hard time doing so.

[sunshine111]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

OK so i will wait until the applicants evidence and summary hearing date info come through then draft my summary judgement defence. i need to include as part of my defence the 61/65 127 isse. i did put them to strict proof as part of my POC defence. also if they do not come up with the original copy i make sure to include the section 78 issue (as yet they have failed to provide a compliant copy).

i have received this statement from Northampton - 'this claim has been forwarded to (my local cc) for enforcement'. i assume this means an application for summary judgement has now been made and hearing date to be set? and not that a summary judgement has already been granted???

Thanks for your help, points noted. am going through paperwork in the loft, (so much of it) will try to find info on how the credit card was originally taken out.

[CleverClogs]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

i have started reading through the info supplied as part of my SARs and CCA request. apart from the SARs info being incomplete, i have noted from the SARs info that the recon supplied as a true copy for an agreement made in 1997 states that the minimum credit limit is £2,500. however my SARs memoline trans clearly states that the initial credit limit was substantially less than this and gives the dates when the credit limit were eventually changed.

how can this then be a true copy?

It isn't.

But a court may still accept that rubbish as a "twue copy".

[gravytrain]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

Despite CC'sc hilarious miss spelling.

The credit limit is a prescribed term, as such any compliant "true copy" would have to have this correctly stated.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

OK so i will wait until the applicants evidence and summary hearing date info come through then draft my summary judgement defence. i need to include as part of my defence the 61/65 127 isse. i did put them to strict proof as part of my POC defence. also if they do not come up with the original copy i make sure to include the section 78 issue (as yet they have failed to provide a compliant copy).

i have received this statement from Northampton - 'this claim has been forwarded to (my local cc) for enforcement'. i assume this means an application for summary judgement has now been made and hearing date to be set? and not that a summary judgement has already been granted???

Correct. Northampton is just the bulk processing centre for money claims, it's not an actual court. The claim has to be transferred to your local court where the hearing will take place.

[sunshine111]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

OK, so hearing date now set. the notification doesnt mention 'summary judgement' just 'hearing' and that i need to attend. i had assumed it would have been a paper exercise only for the judge - but never the less.

my query now is that although i have received the notification from the court of the hearing date, i have not received a copy of the evidence that the claimant is presenting!! is this normal? will it be the court, or the claimant that has to send me this information? or do i get nothing? how can i then prepare any defence that i have??:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

[sunshine111]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

Sorry i forgot to include with my last post, this query.

if the summary judgement is awarded to the claimant, is it immediate or in place after 28 days (or whatever?)

how soon after a summary judgement is awarded can a claimant apply for a charging order, should they want one? and if awarded is it effective immediately?

excuse all the questions im trying to think of and cover all eventualities

Thanks

[sunshine111]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

Hi

is there anyone around that can help with my query or point me in the right direction please?

Regards

[FORCEOFONE]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

For a county court judgement to be recorded with the registry trust, a period of twenty eight days needs to have elapsed without satisfaction of the judgement, from the time judgement was implemented.

[gravytrain]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

The Creditor will have to pay a fee and apply for an interim charging order with the court. The can do this as soon as they receive judgment.
You will then be sent a hearing date, where can challenge the order being completed.
They will put a note on you land registry file when they send the interim order which should be 21 days before the hearing date.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: reconstucted CCA has error

Just to comment on the Charging Order issue, if the property is jointly owned and the debt is in your sole name, they can only register a restriction rather than a full Charging Order.