M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

I think we are at cross purposes here, you are referring to DCA pre litigation, i am referring to post.

My apologies I meant to quote another post, not yours. I have amended the thread

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Do all these people not have any signed agreement ?

Were there section 78 or dn issues?

Even if there were , one size rarely fits all in civil litigation I have found. If it did we would not need solicitors.

If you make a CCA request to M&S you normally get an application form for the original store card which has a different number to the mastercard. They have tried to make it look like the storecard terms and conditions were at the back. I would really need to find the original application form to see if that was the case or not.

Their DNs have rarely been spot on either.

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Furthermore, I wonder how successful DCAs really are? All major smartphones now have an option to block numbers, resulting in calls going to voicemail. Some people are already giving up landlines and if not, there's a truecall option.

I think many DCAs rely on the fact that most people don't know their consumer rights, confuse debt collectors and bailiffs etc. Some M&S Pre Legal Recoveries template letters are also trying to use this to their advantage i.e. threats after threats without mentioning that in reality to actually get any of their threats materialised they would need a court order!

The simplest thing of not speaking to them on the phone completely fecks them up because they rely on their bullying threatmonkeys to force you into a payment by lying as to what powers they actually have. Similarly if they send one of their door steppers they can easily be disposed of by two words the second of which is OFF

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Sorry you appear to be missing my point.

M&S issued these credit cards to millions of people who did not ask for them. These were issued in replacement for their storecards and often with huge Credit Limits.

As I stated twice earlier they were advised at the time that what they did was illegal but by the time they realised this it was too late. I return to my original statement that as there is so much money involved and Santander could afford the best lawyers that money can buy then why did they not contest this judgement. It seems simple to me.

No I see your point, i have heard it many times, why have they not enforced? it must mean that the case is water tight. I heard it for six years or so with bank charges, the Rankin used the argument for years before the test case, it was used on many arguments and when push came to shove they failed.
I am not saying you are wrong, in fact the law looks sound to me, I am just saying it is not proven, and anyone should take care before considering the deference a done deal.

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Also as I keep pointing out Mayhew was not just about section 82, as someone pointed out it was not even the main judgment.

[mystery1]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Also as I keep pointing out Mayhew was not just about section 82, as someone pointed out it was not even the main judgment.

It was the Claimant's case that the new card was supplied under a credit token agreement which remained in force and that there was no modification attracting regulation 7. In my judgment the Claimant's analysis is wrong and there was a modification of the agreement requiring compliance with regulation7. The Claimant did not argue that it had complied with the regulation.

Seems pretty clear to me.

M1

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

No I see your point, i have heard it many times, why have they not enforced? it must mean that the case is water tight. I heard it for six years or so with bank charges, the Rankin used the argument for years before the test case, it was used on many arguments and when push came to shove they failed.
I am not saying you are wrong, in fact the law looks sound to me, I am just saying it is not proven, and anyone should take care before considering the deference a done deal.

Rankin was the claimant, not defendant.

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

It was the Claimant's case that the new card was supplied under a credit token agreement which remained in force and that there was no modification attracting regulation 7. In my judgment the Claimant's analysis is wrong and there was a modification of the agreement requiring compliance with regulation7. The Claimant did not argue that it had complied with the regulation.

Seems pretty clear to me.

M1

If a multinational company like Santander did not think the judgement of a mere CC Judge was correct then why not appeal it.

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

I would not consider this as a 'done deal'. In fact there are just two certainties in life!

As Plan B wisely says you need to have a plan b in case the judge doesn't agree with Judge Manners.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

If a multinational company like Santander did not think the judgement of a mere CC Judge was correct then why not appeal it.

To avoid setting precedent if they lost, simples!

As noted on various posts above, there are around 5 million such 'upgraded' or 'modified' storecards around, so it would be disastrous for the likes of Satan's Den and HSBC if such precedent was set.

[FlamingParrot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Rankin was the claimant, not defendant.

Indeed, this point is often missed, as with the infamous Carey case which is the bank's and DCA's favourite: challenge your agreement or dispute your account and you get a number of quotes from Carey thrown at you. What they never tell you is that, in those cases, the debtors took the creditors to court to have their agreements ruled unenforceable, in that case the onus was on the debtor to prove there hadn't been a properly executed agreement. Mayhew, on the other hand, was the defendant.

The Rankines did win a few cases in the beginning, that's how they got the idea of building a business out of it. I saw their Panorama program in 2008: "Can't pay, won't pay". They may have been confidence tricksters, I don't dispute that, however, they opened our eyes to the possibility of the almighty banks making mistakes with the paperwork for our cards and loans. They attempted to turn it into a money-spinner and that's where they were wrong, some of us nearly fell for it at the time!

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

It was the Claimant's case that the new card was supplied under a credit token agreement which remained in force and that there was no modification attracting regulation 7. In my judgment the Claimant's analysis is wrong and there was a modification of the agreement requiring compliance with regulation7. The Claimant did not argue that it had complied with the regulation.

Seems pretty clear to me.

M1

Indeed, my opinion also but just opinion sadly unlike this from the same judgment which is what actually sealed their fate.

I believed her evidence that she had not received any terms and conditions, either when she took the application form or when she received the card. I therefore find that the April 2000 agreement is unenforceable.

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

If a multinational company like Santander did not think the judgement of a mere CC Judge was correct then why not appeal it.

they would quote my last post I suppose. Who knows

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Indeed, my opinion also but just opinion sadly unlike this from the same judgment which is what actually sealed their fate.

I believed her evidence that she had not received any terms and conditions, either when she took the application form or when she received the card. I therefore find that the April 2000 agreement is unenforceable.

Forget the transformation issue for now, would the application form M&S sent me make the agreement enforceable?

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

To avoid setting precedent if they lost, simples!

As noted on various posts above, there are around 5 million such 'upgraded' or 'modified' storecards around, so it would be disastrous for the likes of Satan's Den and HSBC if such precedent was set.

So basically they will attempt to bluff people that they have a case and if someone contests it on the basis of Mayhew then they will not risk going to Court