M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

It was the Claimant's case that the new card was supplied under a credit token agreement which remained in force and that there was no modification attracting regulation 7. In my judgment the Claimant's analysis is wrong and there was a modification of the agreement requiring compliance with regulation7. The Claimant did not argue that it had complied with the regulation.

Seems pretty clear to me.

M1

If a multinational company like Santander did not think the judgement of a mere CC Judge was correct then why not appeal it.

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

No I see your point, i have heard it many times, why have they not enforced? it must mean that the case is water tight. I heard it for six years or so with bank charges, the Rankin used the argument for years before the test case, it was used on many arguments and when push came to shove they failed.
I am not saying you are wrong, in fact the law looks sound to me, I am just saying it is not proven, and anyone should take care before considering the deference a done deal.

Rankin was the claimant, not defendant.

[mystery1]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Also as I keep pointing out Mayhew was not just about section 82, as someone pointed out it was not even the main judgment.

It was the Claimant's case that the new card was supplied under a credit token agreement which remained in force and that there was no modification attracting regulation 7. In my judgment the Claimant's analysis is wrong and there was a modification of the agreement requiring compliance with regulation7. The Claimant did not argue that it had complied with the regulation.

Seems pretty clear to me.

M1

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Also as I keep pointing out Mayhew was not just about section 82, as someone pointed out it was not even the main judgment.

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Sorry you appear to be missing my point.

M&S issued these credit cards to millions of people who did not ask for them. These were issued in replacement for their storecards and often with huge Credit Limits.

As I stated twice earlier they were advised at the time that what they did was illegal but by the time they realised this it was too late. I return to my original statement that as there is so much money involved and Santander could afford the best lawyers that money can buy then why did they not contest this judgement. It seems simple to me.

No I see your point, i have heard it many times, why have they not enforced? it must mean that the case is water tight. I heard it for six years or so with bank charges, the Rankin used the argument for years before the test case, it was used on many arguments and when push came to shove they failed.
I am not saying you are wrong, in fact the law looks sound to me, I am just saying it is not proven, and anyone should take care before considering the deference a done deal.

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Furthermore, I wonder how successful DCAs really are? All major smartphones now have an option to block numbers, resulting in calls going to voicemail. Some people are already giving up landlines and if not, there's a truecall option.

I think many DCAs rely on the fact that most people don't know their consumer rights, confuse debt collectors and bailiffs etc. Some M&S Pre Legal Recoveries template letters are also trying to use this to their advantage i.e. threats after threats without mentioning that in reality to actually get any of their threats materialised they would need a court order!

The simplest thing of not speaking to them on the phone completely fecks them up because they rely on their bullying threatmonkeys to force you into a payment by lying as to what powers they actually have. Similarly if they send one of their door steppers they can easily be disposed of by two words the second of which is OFF

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Do all these people not have any signed agreement ?

Were there section 78 or dn issues?

Even if there were , one size rarely fits all in civil litigation I have found. If it did we would not need solicitors.

If you make a CCA request to M&S you normally get an application form for the original store card which has a different number to the mastercard. They have tried to make it look like the storecard terms and conditions were at the back. I would really need to find the original application form to see if that was the case or not.

Their DNs have rarely been spot on either.

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

I think we are at cross purposes here, you are referring to DCA pre litigation, i am referring to post.

My apologies I meant to quote another post, not yours. I have amended the thread

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

Do all these people not have any signed agreement ?

Were there section 78 or dn issues?

Even if there were , one size rarely fits all in civil litigation I have found. If it did we would not need solicitors.

Sorry you appear to be missing my point.

M&S issued these credit cards to millions of people who did not ask for them. These were issued in replacement for their storecards and often with huge Credit Limits.

As I stated twice earlier they were advised at the time that what they did was illegal but by the time they realised this it was too late. I return to my original statement that as there is so much money involved and Santander could afford the best lawyers that money can buy then why did they not contest this judgement. It seems simple to me.

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

The simplest thing of not speaking to them on the phone completely fecks them up because they rely on their bullying threatmonkeys to force you into a payment by lying as to what powers they actually have. Similarly if they send one of their door steppers they can easily be disposed of by two words the second of which is OFF

I think we are at cross purposes here, you are referring to DCA pre litigation, i am referring to post.

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

The thing about the Santander v Mayhew case is that so many million people are in the same position. If the mighty Santanader did not think it worthwhile to contest this judegement then this is IMHO one of those cases were one size fits almost everyone.

Do all these people not have any signed agreement ?

Were there section 78 or dn issues?

Even if there were , one size rarely fits all in civil litigation I have found. If it did we would not need solicitors.

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

I have taken legal advice and they have clearly told me the situation is very similar to Santander vs. Mayhew indeed. Please see my comments about their application form, though I don't think it's that relevant in this case. I do have one another argument against them if need be.

Whilst the Santander vs. Mayhew case wasn't tested at the highest level, I have been told that practically the only way another judge could rule differently is to say that the Judge Manners ruling was wrong.

Of course, I'm hoping not to get the court papers but I for one will defend vigorously!

The thing about the Santander v Mayhew case is that so many million people are in the same position. If the mighty Santanader did not think it worthwhile to contest this judegement then this is IMHO one of those cases were one size fits almost everyone.

[ODC]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

......

[Mr $quandaŁot]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

I would take advice, depending on what papers they have and what evidence they present, same as any other case lacking precedent.

The problem with cases like this is that some tend to thin k that one size fits all, in this case all card upgrades are unenforceable, it simply is not the case, it depends.

If there are other supporting arguments as in Plan Bs case all the better.

I have taken legal advice and they have clearly told me the situation is very similar to Santander vs. Mayhew indeed. Please see my comments about their application form, though I don't think it's that relevant in this case. I do have one another argument against them if need be.

Whilst the Santander vs. Mayhew case wasn't tested at the highest level, I have been told that practically the only way another judge could rule differently is to say that the Judge Manners ruling was wrong.

Of course, I'm hoping not to get the court papers but I for one will defend vigorously!

[gravytrain]

Re: M&S store card turned credit card - what next?

I think many DCAs rely on the fact that most people don't know their consumer rights, confuse debt collectors and bailiffs etc. Some M&S Pre Legal Recoveries template letters are also trying to use this to their advantage i.e. threats after threats without mentioning that in reality to actually get any of their threats materialised they would need a court order!

Undoubtedly