fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

[postggj]

ime helping out a colleague on this

he had a car loan by way of a FIXED SUM LOAN AGREEMENT

under this agreement the goods belong to the debtor outright and the finance company hold no security over the goods

now this agreement has been secured by a bill of sale

IS THAT LEGAL

AFTER ALL ITS NOT A HP OR CONDITIONAL SALE AGREEMENT BUT A FIXED SUM LOAN AGREEMENT

SOME STATUTE OR CASE LAW LINKS WOULD BE NICE

MANY THANKS

[postggj]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

bump

[The Debt Star]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

I don't think there's any reason why a personal loan used for the purposes of purchasing a car should mean that the lender has a charge on the car. After all, bank's can lend you X pounds on an unsecured basis. Have I missed the point of your question?

[postggj]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

A Fixed Sum Loan Agreement Means You Own The Goods Outright

Is It Legal For A Fixed Sum Loan Agreement To Be Secured By A Bill Of Sale As Its Not A Hp Or Conditional Sale Agreement Where The Finance Company Retains An Interest

Many Thanks

[The Debt Star]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

PM Cetelco on this mate.

[Amethyst]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

Does your colleague have a copy of the credit agreement ?

When was the loan taken out, and when was the loan secured by the bill of sale ?

[postggj]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

She Has A Copy Of The Agreement

It Is A Fixed Sum Loan Agreement, Not A Credit Agreement

Loan Taken Out 2007

Finance Company Took Her To Court And I Got It Thrown Out On A Lousy Default Notice

Creditor Has Now Issued New Claim On The Back Of A New Default Notice

Creditor Can Now Do This Thanks To The Harrison Judgement

CREDITOR STATES CREDIT AGREEMENT IN POC WHEN IT IS A FIXED SUM LOAN AGREEMENT


Bill Of Sale Is Crap As Not In Prescribed Form But I Want To Nail Tis With Relevant Statute Legislation

Many Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

A fixed sum loan agreement is a credit agreement.

I think in order to help properly we'll need to see a copy of the 'fixed sum loan agreement' as the details thus far are a bit sketchy.

So they are taking your colleague to court ? How far along this process have things gone ?

[postggj]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

n1 claim has been issued and acknowledged

she has 7 days left for the defense to be submitted

[postggj]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

[Amethyst]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

Well it's a debtor/creditor/supplier car finance credit agreement taken to purchase a specific vehicle (restricted use), secured on that vehicle by the bill of sale, not a personal loan which has then been used to buy a car. So yes the finance company do hold security over the car.

What is the finance company claiming for and what is the defence planned based on?

I guess you want sections 11 and 12? of the CCA for starters.

I'm not up to date on bill of sale retrospective legalities though, but to me, I can't see a problem with it, all the relevant bits seem to be there and no insurances bunged , the document fee is paid with the first installment and doesn't seem to have been used to attract interest.

So depending what they are claiming (ie for the car or the payments? have they already got the car ?) you might be concentrating on the faulty Bill of Sale.

[pfloyd]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

A bill of sale comes in two sections.

The first section is the fixed-sum loan agreement. Then you have the security by way of bill of sale; it's a very archaic method of securing a debt against an asset - often used by sub-prime 'log book' loan type firms who usually charge an exorbitant amount of interest.

There should be a second piece of paper outlining the bill of sale, this has to be drawn up in a very precise fashion in accordance with the Bill of Sale Act 1878.

Do you have that to hand at all?

[Sparkie1723]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

removed ....posted on wrong thread.............apologies

Sparkie

[Guest]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

HI
Interesting this not something I have come across before. So totally in my opinion only.
The only reason that I can see for a creditor using this device is to avoid the section 90 protection of the act. With the bill of sale arrangement, if the debtor was to default the creditor would be able to repossess the vehicle at any stage, (if this were a conventional hire purchase agreement he could not do so without an order of the court after 1/3 payment), the only restriction being that he would have to adhere to the requirements of section 87 and issue a default notice.
It is true that if a security on a CCA is improperly executed then a court may not agree to enforcement of that security (under section 105 of the act), it is also true that this would trigger section 106 and enable the debtor to reclaim all amounts paid by virtue of that security.
I do not think that the above would apply if the bill of sale was not correctly drawn up and registered. I think that it would probably just result in the creditor not being able to use it to claim the vehicle, but it would not affect the enforceability of the agreement.
What the court would do in the respect of default I frankly don’t know, I suspect that they would treat it the same as a breach on an HP agreement, with the claimant having to decide if the wanted to pursue the money or the car post judgement.
I may alter my opinion as I learn more about this or when someone tells me I am wrong on here.
Peter

[postggj]

Re: fixed sum loan agreement and bill of sale

many thanks for dropping in peter

ill throw another spanner into the works

this has allready been to court and the creditor withdrew due to a defective default notice last year

prior to that court action, the creditor did a repo on the vehicle using the bll of sale security.

now if the bill of sale was not in order at the time of the repo and the original default notice was flawed also

what redress does the debtor have

the creditor has done new proceedings now as they have issued a second valid default notice as to the harrison judgement