Default Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

[basa48]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Thnaks Basa

Debt is £20k so costs will be....a lot? If I lose.

I do understand that I will get a payment schedule for the ccj but what about the opponents costs should I lose. Am I expected to pay this immediately or is that factored into the payment schedule?

TBH I don't know about costs in fast/multi track cases. Yes they can be considerable.

I know you can't be forced to pay what you don't have.

At this stage (which is still very early in the procedure) I would concentrate more on your defence. From what I read in the thread I feel you have a good case.

You should be aware of a case pt2537 is involved with here:

Legal Beagles Consumer Forum - View Single Post - Contracts, Termination, Repudiation and Rescission

Keep your defence vague (but accurate) until this result is fully known. It could affect your case.

[toomanycalls]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Basa

Thanks again, I'd seen that thread am eagerly awaiting the judgements publication. It was part of my reasoning for continuing with this at this stage.

The reason I ask about the costs issue is I'm sure I read somewhere that if you couldn't pay your opponents costs for a lose then they could potentially bankrupt you but I'm quite happy to be corrected. If they just add it on to the amount claimed then so be it.

So do you think it would be wise to remove what I've drafted for the witness statement for now? Maybe reintroduce it later when I get a bit further along.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

If I were you TMC I would just respond to the POC and get your defence in.

I think you will be allocated to the fast track, where costs are fixed - the OC will not be able to claim all his costs.

It's worth going through the CPRs at;

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/

(The CPRs govern all civil litigation).

I think (may be wrong) that the maximum amount the OC can claim in costs is £750 for a claim over £10K, plus the trial costs which are covered in CPR45.4 (quite low - just admin charges).

I also think you can submit your WS at any time up to the trial (maybe even at it?), but the OC will have to submit his statement of costs beforehand.

So you will not be stung for thousands in costs - otherwise no-one would dare defend a claim!

HTH

[toomanycalls]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Cheers LA,

Looked through the link and it certainly looks like your right. I was expecting far more than that, somehow had an idea that it would be £6-8k. If its a "grand" the I think its worth the gamble in this instance anyway. My worry was suddenly being expected to pay £8k should everything go wrong somehow.

Defence will be posted tomorrow by registered post.

TMC

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Good luck TMC - you have a strong defence, and lots of support!!

LA

[Amethyst]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Just picking up on a couple things

WS should be 7 days for comfort, 3 minimum...yes you can show up at the hearing with it, but it will just result in hearing being adjourned or judge ignoring it, so 7 days to court and claimant is safest.


COSTS - they are claiming 20k ? So liable to be fast track or multitrack at least, especially considering complexity of issues, so your first estimate around £6k was much nearer the mark.

Sorry LA - I don't know where ''OC can claim in costs is £750 for a claim over £10K '' is from ? If its 46.2 as I think then that is a specific area of costs for advocates ...

[toomanycalls]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Thanks Ame, do you know should I lose is this payable straight away as lump?

[toomanycalls]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Defence posted SD today.

[Amethyst]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

I think it works out as forthwith but can be redetermined to installments. Not saying it would def be that much if you lost but we see quite regularly costs between £3k and 10k on CCA defence cases sadly, not so much on here but theres a fair few on CAG.

[toomanycalls]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Thanks again Ame, fingers crossed it won't come to that but I like to know both sides of the coin.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Apologies, I was looking at the 1998 CPRs for some reason...

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...2/part/46/made

but they are updated by...

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...6.htm#IDAM3IGC

which bumps the cost up to £1,650.

However, I still think that if the costs are at this level you can request an unreasonable costs order be made, if the trial has been handled quickly.

This of course assumes that TMC will lose...

[toomanycalls]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Cheers LA, seems ok assuming it will be fast track but will it be with a £20k claim...might be multi track, we'll see soon enough I expect.

I've done a bit of digging myself and found this site, not a definitive source but nice to see something wrtten. http://www.aboutsmallclaims.co.uk/wh...-judgment.html

It said this about paying the costs

How Costs are Paid
If the claimant wins the case, any costs that the defendant is ordered to pay are likely to be added to the total judgment debt to be paid at the same rate. If the defendant wins, the court will decide when and at what rate the claimant should pay costs.

I also came across something that stated about 10 weeks after allocation for the witness statements and about 30 weeks for trial. Should be time to see a couple of judgements come to light, hopefully Brandon and the other one that PT has.

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

Yes, it may be multi-track - I wonder if this is how costs can become a serious problem? Would be useful to get more feedback from others about this.

However, the last few posts have been a bit negative - let's not forget that the bank has no apparent entitlement to take this action, and if you say that to the judge he cannot disagree and then award massive costs to the other side.

After all, you are forced into this situation, believing that your contract was regulated but now finding that the bank has no time for regulation and prefers instead to drag you to court, with the threat of punitive damages hanging over your head.

It may therefore be sensible to find your own costs and draw up your own statement to be presented to the other side when you win!

[toomanycalls]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

However, the last few posts have been a bit negative - let's not forget that the bank has no apparent entitlement to take this action, and if you say that to the judge he cannot disagree and then award massive costs to the other side.

After all, you are forced into this situation, believing that your contract was regulated but now finding that the bank has no time for regulation and prefers instead to drag you to court, with the threat of punitive damages hanging over your head.

It may therefore be sensible to find your own costs and draw up your own statement to be presented to the other side when you win!

I agree, I think I have a reasonably good chance of winning otherwise I'd have given in already. My only concern is not having been through the procedure before its a bit daunting. I'm not unconfident. (great English...) I'm just don't have all the pieces yet that make up confidence. Its a bit like starting a new job and not knowing all the rules/ways of working/idiosyncrasies but I am learning fast. Kinda wish I'd been through it already with a lower ticket though, talk about thrown in at the deep end.... Still, 30 weeks to prepare, I can learn a lot more in that time and there seems to be a few friendly people here with good advice

[pt2537]

Re: Me V Bank - defective DN and unfair relationship defence.

well costs wise

The last two big trials i have had the opponents costs were £40k plus disbursements and vat and £109k

both being multi-track cases admittedly one was High Court.