Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Interesting DN-based successful defence OTR here...

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk...ce-****WON****

A bit long-winded but well worth a look. Am sure some here will not appreciate it, but it does show that not all courts favour the banks by default (no pun intended!).

LA

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks G, appreciate all your help and support you have given.

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello jumper

In my opinion, based on what you have stated about your case, I stand by what I have stated in your defence against this action.

It is clear to me that it was never your intention to break the agreement, cases of this type involving these circumstances or similar are not straight forward and this means that the claimant's claim will not be decided in a cut and dried fashion.

There are very bad consumers/debtors out there in our country, you jumper, are most certainly not one of them.

Whatever you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck and I hope you have an enjoyable Birthday next week.

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks Wendy I think common sense went out of window years ago. Will just have to wait and see what happens. That's all I can do.

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Well said Jumper, common sense approach without allowing technicalities to cloud the issue. Good luck if and when it does get to Court. As you said, if you point out your willingness all along to come to an arrangement it can only look good for you and bad for them. Hope you get a common sense Judge.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks AC again, to be honest I really cannot be asked to go through all that. I have never denied owing this debt neither avoided paying it. In fact I believe that I have done all I can and could have.

End of the day is that I had the card, I used the money and I have to pay this back. I will get this sorted out one way or the other.

If I do get a CCJ then there is not much I can do, or if HSBC agree to accept a repayment plan. I know when your sinking you try to grab on to everything and anything you can.........but that was not what I was doing.

Bottom line is that I needed HSBC to accept reduced, they said no, I got six letters with their refusals to accept, fair enough they are not obliged to accept and there is nothing I can do to force them.

There is no point in me nit picking to find faults in my agreement to find a way out of paying as this would contradict everything I have been doing and saying. I wanted to pay they didn't want what I was offering.

OK, so I complained to the FOS but that is what they are there for right? I never wanted my agreement to end but if that is the price I have to or shall I say have paid by HSBC terminating my agreement then so be it. I have to do what is morally right. I have never ran away from my debts, as I never used to have any as I was always sensible with my finances until OH came in to my life......but I am not going to blame anyone and do the right and sensible thing.

I am 40 next week and they say that life begins at 40 and that is what I am going to focus on. Get myself and my finances sorted as this has gone on long enough and I think enough is enough as things and stress like this can take their toll. I will try and negotiate with HSBC prior to the hearing......if they do not accept then I will have no choice but to let the court decide what is the best way forward. If for nothing else I will inform the court about the serious attempts I made to negotiate with HSBC and there repeated refusals.

End of the day the court will not order me to pay more than I can afford, and I know that they don't hang you for being in debt in this country because if they did then my OH would have been strung up a long time ago LOL.

Hope this is the best way out of this maze I'm in.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Information provided under a FULL SAR will reveal much...

Also, if it were me, I would require proof that the correct cancellation rights were served.
However, HSBC will probably say they were. Therefore, unless you can provide proof that they were not, the argument will fail

What a great pity that members did not file all their documents.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Well to be honest I can't remember what I had for breakfast yesterday let alone what was said and not said on the phone in 06 when I applied. What I do know is that my credit limit was £2,500 and not £3,000.00 as HSBC are showing, but I have no way of proving this, and not that it will make any difference either IMO.

The DM regs state the word the supplier should do and should that, but not a requirement.

I don't think I will be able to get far using this argument, as they will always have some act or regulation to say that they are not obliged to do this.

Thanks AC for that, good to learn.

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Telephone

The Regulations recognise the impracticalities of a supplier providing all of the above information to a consumer where the means of distance communication is over the telephone. In these circumstances the regulations allow a reduced requirement on what information is to be provided.
Best practice recommendation is that when suppliers promote and sell their products by telephone, they should begin by stating the caller's name and the fact that they are a sales representative employed by or acting on behalf of the supplier (naming the supplier). The caller should then clearly describe the product including the main characteristics. They should also clearly state the total price including taxes, or if it is not possible to give a fixed price then the means of calculating the price. The consumer should also be advised that further information is available on request and that there is the right to withdraw from the contract within the cancellation period.
As the call progresses and the consumer expresses an interest in entering the contract the supplier should provide information to the consumer regarding the respective contractual obligations.
Following up

As well as providing the prior information listed above, the supplier should also ensure that he communicates all the contractual terms and conditions specified above to the consumer on paper or another durable medium (which includes sending a copy through e-mail or post). The supplier should do this in good time prior to the conclusion of the contract. Where the consumer has requested that the contract be concluded using a means of distance communication then it should happen immediately after conclusion of the contract. Suppliers must also provide the consumer with a copy of the terms and conditions when requested unless the supplier has already communicated these to the consumer and they have not changed.
It is worth noting that suppliers should try to provide a copy of the terms and conditions as soon as possible in order to effectively conclude the contract. The cancellation period (discussed below) only begins when the paper or other durable medium copy of the contract terms and conditions is received by the consumer. If the supplier provides the required information in a timely manner the cancellation period will be kept to a minimum and the consumer will have as little time as possible to cancel the contract. This is a win-win situation for the supplier, who appears to their consumer to be helpful and efficient, while at the same time ensuring legal compliance and protecting their commercial interests.
The consumer can request that the means of distance communication be changed and the supplier should comply unless this is incompatible with the distance contract or the nature of the financial service provided to the consumer. For example, where the contract is an on-line financial service and it would be incompatible for the supplier to change to telephone communications."

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks AC,

Just had a quick flick through the above link. Does it mean that according to the DM regulations that my agreement should have contained this information, because they have stated in my agreement that I should refer to my copy of my agreement which I do not have.

Required information

Before the consumer is bound into the contract the supplier (or their intermediary) must supply the following information:
Supplier's identity

• the identity and main business of the supplier, geographical address at which the supplier is established and any other address relevant to the consumer's relationship with the supplier;
• where the supplier is not based in the consumers' EU Member State, but has a representative in that country, the identity of the representative should be given along with the geographical address;
• the identity and geographical address of any other professional who will have dealings with the consumer;
• particulars of registration in any trade or public register, for example a Companies House registration number;
• particulars of any relevant supervisory authority, for example a FSA registration number and a link to their web site;
• description of the main characteristics of the financial service;

Product details

• the total price to be paid by the consumer including all related fees etc.;
• where relevant, details should be given regarding any fluctuations in price that are dependent on factors out-with the supplier's control;
• notice of any extra taxes that may exist that are not paid via the supplier or imposed by him;
• any limitations of the period for which the information provided is valid;

Contract particulars

• arrangements for the payment and performance and any additional costs for the consumer for using distance communication;
• whether there is a right of cancellation and if so, cancellation information;
• the minimum duration of the distance contract in the case of financial services to be provided immediately;
• information on any rights of termination and any penalties imposed;
• practical instructions for exercising the right of cancellation;
• the European Economic Area member state whose laws the supplier is taking as the basis for the contract;
• any contractual clause on the law applicable to the distance contract or on the law applicable to the competent court;
• the languages that the contractual terms will be made in and in which the supplier will communicate for the duration of the contract;
• whether there is an out-of-court claim and the methods for accessing this; and
• the existence of guarantee funds or other compensation agreements.

The above information must be provided to the consumer in a clear and comprehensible manner on paper or another durable medium appropriate to the means of distance communication used before the contract can be concluded.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Where it says product details "total price to be paid"

I know they are not required to state what the credit limit is, as they are allowed to say that the credit limit will be determined by us from time to time.

So how could they write a total price to be paid if they did not write how much that price would be, or should I say I did not know how much it would be?

No dates of when I should make repayments on my agreement either, I assume that is also not necessary?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi AC it was by phone and application was sent home, I signed then sent back

Okay, I noticed on the reconstructed agreement that Distance Marketing was mentioned.

http://www.out-law.com/page-477

However, it would appear that the requirements were lesser in relation to telephone sales.

Important to tick off all possibilities, though.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

If I go to court and admit the claim can HSBC apply interest to my debt? As they have applied for this on the POC.

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks pt, my brain hurts now what's left of it. So it has been established that I am flogging a dead horse here, what are my options to put an end to all this and come to a solution with HSBC? Should I write an make an offer?

Thank you for all your input today, I have taken it all in.

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I cannot see anywhere in my agreement it saying that if I default then the creditor is entitled then I have breached my agreement and the creditor is entitled to enforce all the sums owed.

Or does this information not have to be present?

doesnt need to

in much the same way as a food blender wont have a sticker on the from saying if you put your hand in and turn it on your fingers will be diced

its a given, and there is no statutory requirements for these words to appear in the agreement, sorry, but thats the case

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I cannot see anywhere in my agreement it saying that if I default then the creditor is entitled then I have breached my agreement and the creditor is entitled to enforce all the sums owed.

Or does this information not have to be present?