Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

[WendyB]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I've said it before and I am getting a bit fed up of repeating myself. This is not helping the OP in the slightest. If you disagree on points of law, then fine, it should be on here so the OP can decide which way to go.

But can you slug out the rest of it in private please. It's entertaining for a while, then, quite frankly, boring.

But it's nice to see PT and Peterbard agreeing for a change

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I know where you have been the Bard, I see that you have also rubbished another case over on CAG that I have advised on, where do you get off claiming to the op that my advice is insane and that the op should only communicate with you in pm's on his case?

You state that you do not understand what I have written on that particular case, which as it turns out is also a repudiation of the agreement/contract by the creditor without just cause.

If you do not understand Mr Bard, then I rest my case.

Stop stalking me! and stop attempting to discredit me!

Regards

Godzilla

It isnt your case i am concerned about.

Peter

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

I know where you have been the Bard, I see that you have also rubbished another case over on CAG that I have advised on, where do you get off claiming to the op that my advice is insane and that the op should only communicate with you in pm's on his case?

You state that you do not understand what I have written on that particular case, which as it turns out is also a repudiation of the agreement/contract by the creditor without just cause.

If you do not understand Mr Bard, then I rest my case.

Stop stalking me! and stop attempting to discredit me!

Regards

Godzilla

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

PT AND THE BARD

What on earth are you both on about? I have not stated that the op didn't breach the agreement!!!

Judgments can be challenged, you keep your heads buried in those books.

The Bard, are you stalking me?

Regards

Godzilla
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
The principles that have been established over the centuries in the common law of contracts, that's what I am relying upon, are you saying those principles are drivel? PT and the Bard, blimey you sound like a little duo.

Regards

Godzilla

Must admit to a strange fascination.

Me and PT a duo where have you been.

It is just that some facts are inescapable even if you dissagree about the details.

Petr

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

PT AND THE BARD

What on earth are you both on about? I have not stated that the op didn't breach the agreement!!!

Judgments can be challenged, you keep your heads buried in those books.

The Bard, are you stalking me?

Regards

Godzilla
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
The principles that have been established over the centuries in the common law of contracts, that's what I am relying upon, are you saying those principles are drivel? PT and the Bard, blimey you sound like a little duo.

Regards

Godzilla

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Godzilla

are you really that silly, that you have to make such comments?

If i believe a judgment is wrong, it doesnt matter, as the fact is, right or wrong the judgment is the judgment and we are stuck with it.

i am well aware of the comparability of the situations as well, yes i could have referred to the "manni investments" case and cross referred to it with regards to notices of assignments but i didnt and the point i was trying to make is that i believe you are seriously wrong.

I have been through Halsburys laws of England Contract Volume 9, Chitty on contract, White book, Blackstones civil Practice and of course the legal databases for research.

Unsurprisingly, i find nothing that supports your contentions

so, please provide an authority or reference for the contention that failing to pay is not a breach of contract


for the avoidance of doubt, no drooling or drivel will be accepted, just case authorities or reference materials which are authoritative in the UK

Hi

I find myself in the invidious positon of agreing with you 100% on this the problem is he is advising people to take this stuff into a court room. As we speak OTR.

Peter

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi pt and thanks for your comments, I can see where you are coming from, a legal point of view as you know how things go down in court and what it feels like when the tables can turn.

In my defence all I can say is that yes I did according to HSBC breach my agreement, breach is a harsh word I would say but that is what the legal term is, correct?

At the time I breached my agreement I did not think that I was breaching, all I was hoping and believing that I was in genuine hardship and just needed a little time, not infinity, just to get my finances together. I never thought that HSBC would refuse my offer as I had read so much info on the national debtline, and cccs site and I did ring them and they advised that I should offer a token payment of a £1 a month.

I read in many places as this is unsecured debt and priority bills and loans, and mortgages must be paid first, I thought I would ask HSBC if they would accept lower payments for a while. My genuine problem was that British Gas sent me a bill after one year and it was huge, especially as the prices went up.

BG would not accept lower payments so I had to pay the minimum which was quite a lot, and I am still paying, thankfully there is not much left now.

There is a lot of advice that priority debts must be paid off first then unsecured debts, forums and advise centers all say the same thing that people can offer token payments on unsecured debts, that is all I did, and if what I did was wrong then all the information on the cccs and national debt line and forums is also wrong.

I have never denied not owing what I did, and have always taken my debt seriously. My credit file and banking history will show this............but maybe I am in the minority here, and one of the unfortunate ones.

I was in a position where I had no option where as HSBC did have the option, and they could have accepted my offer, I mean they did accept £1 with the FOS, which was much lower than what I was offering from day one.

Then again I did breach and now I await my sentencing, good job they don't do hanging anymore LOL!

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

As there has been no intent to breach the contract, the analogy of the car theft is therefore misleading; theft of a car requires intent.

LA

yes there must be actus reus and mens rea for an offence to be committed, im of course well aware of that.

The point which appears to be missed,is that cut the cake anyway you want, there IS a breach of contract which the bank is entitled to take action upon, whether that action is justified is another matter, and wheter there is an unfairness point is something for the trial jjudge on the day to decide

but simply saying no there isnt a breach of contract is nonsensicle in my opinion, that is the point i am making

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Thanks LA,

Here is some info been reading this morning, guess it does not apply to me.

New banking code seeks greater consumer protection | Money | guardian.co.uk

[Lord_Alcohol]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Isn't it the case with Jumper that there was no intent to breach the agreement, and that she did all she could to ensure that the agreement remained in place despite reduced circumstances? There is ample evidence that this is so, in her various letters and those from the bank that reject their contents.

For the bank to refuse to accept even a temporary arrangement, it is in effect denying that temporary adverse circumstances might affect one of their customers during the very long lifetimes of their rolling credit products. The Lending Code recognises that these situations may arise, hence it's statements that include;

137: Subscribers should be sympathetic and positive when considering a customer’s financial difficulties

146: The subscriber should explore a range of options with the customer

166: Where the subscriber considers the customer’s personal and financial circumstances to be exceptional and unlikely to improve, the subscriber may, among other options, consider writing off or not pursuing part or all of the customer’s debt(s). Where write-off is requested by a customer or adviser but is not considered appropriate by the subscriber, the subscriber must give their reasons in writing. If the subscriber agrees to a write-off, then the debt may be registered as a default with the credit reference agencies.

The Lending Code makes no mention of breach of contract when the borrower suffers financial hardship - it is a fact of life that these events occur.

As there has been no intent to breach the contract, the analogy of the car theft is therefore misleading; theft of a car requires intent.

LA

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Godzilla

are you really that silly, that you have to make such comments?

If i believe a judgment is wrong, it doesnt matter, as the fact is, right or wrong the judgment is the judgment and we are stuck with it.

i am well aware of the comparability of the situations as well, yes i could have referred to the "manni investments" case and cross referred to it with regards to notices of assignments but i didnt and the point i was trying to make is that i believe you are seriously wrong.

I have been through Halsburys laws of England Contract Volume 9, Chitty on contract, White book, Blackstones civil Practice and of course the legal databases for research.

Unsurprisingly, i find nothing that supports your contentions

so, please provide an authority or reference for the contention that failing to pay is not a breach of contract


for the avoidance of doubt, no drooling or drivel will be accepted, just case authorities or reference materials which are authoritative in the UK

[jumper999]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hi AC,

Do you think that I will get costs against n=me and is we talking hundreds, thousands or millions?

[Angry Cat]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

PT you admit that the Judgment in Brandon, in your opinion, is wrong, you are a qualified Solicitor, if you know what's wrong, why do you bring out your F18's to shoot down the arguments being put forward for the defence in this case, why do you disagree so?

Anyway, jumper, good luck with your decision in this matter (I do not feel any luck is needed).

Kind Regards

Godzilla

Costs re: LIP's!

I actually do sympathise with jumper, his/her case does actually cause reason for concern...

[Godzilla]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

Hello PT

That post you put up regarding the car theft, that is not a comparable PT to these circumstances, you could of posted up the Landlord and Tennant case to use as a comparable.

PT you admit that the Judgment in Brandon, in your opinion, is wrong, you are a qualified Solicitor, if you know what's wrong, why do you bring out your F18's to shoot down the arguments being put forward for the defence in this case, why do you disagree so?

Anyway, jumper, good luck with your decision in this matter (I do not feel any luck is needed).

Kind Regards

Godzilla

[pt2537]

Re: Court claim issued by HSBC on a faulty DN & TN

but it wasnt won on the evidence,

there is a major difference