Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

[basa48]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

HI Molly

Yes the same could be true of any agreement, smile sweetly at the judge and say i never saw any terms and conditions your honour honest.

It could have worked here as well, unfotunately it would not have helped the hundreds of people who built their cases on the other three arguments.
In fact i for one am glad that it didnt work, because it would have confused he issue and caused a lot of problems for those that did.

Peter

The whole point here again is that it is for the creditor / claimant to prove she never signed a compliant agreement which no-one yet seems to realise is all but impossible. For a creditor to prove she did sign a compliant agreement on the other hand is a whole different ball game.

I do wonder if some of these 'hallmark' cases are not 'set ups', because they are all very ill advised for the reasons I have given.

[millymollymoo]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

Personally the way I read how the judge or clerk or whoever wrote that transcript of the hearing was almost ridiculing her.. rings a bell, rings a bell but then says that rang no bell.

Its not suposed to be funny. My point was that she did say in around about way that the She didn't see the T&C's.

There is a consultation paper I am sure I read on the net (will look again) about people being afraid to stand up for their rights against these banks, who intimidate by bring barristers into the courtroom.

Its supposed to be there for people who have genuinely got a reason to complain , after all the banks force your hand by consistently not offering a refund in many cases (true some are for other reasons like interest etc) and yet soon as filed ..wallop an offer:censored:. So what are you supposed to do.?

Judges seem to be going the same way. Honestly re read the para about the 'bells' and you might see what I am talking about. I am sure the girl was not a simpleton as thats how I read the transcript at the beginning.
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HI Molly

Yes the same could be true of any agreement, smile sweetly at the judge and say i never saw any terms and conditions your honour honest.

It could have worked here as well, unfotunately it would not have helped the hundreds of people who built their cases on the other three arguments.
In fact i for one am glad that it didnt work, because it would have confused he issue and caused a lot of problems for those that did.

Peter

Yes I understand, however in some cases the banks are lying their :censored: off! As was the truth in my O/H's case.

[Guest]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

Personally the way I read how the judge or clerk or whoever wrote that transcript of the hearing was almost ridiculing her.. rings a bell, rings a bell but then says that rang no bell.

Its not suposed to be funny. My point was that she did say in around about way that the She didn't see the T&C's.

There is a consultation paper I am sure I read on the net (will look again) about people being afraid to stand up for their rights against these banks, who intimidate by bring barristers into the courtroom.

Its supposed to be there for people who have genuinely got a reason to complain , after all the banks force your hand by consistently not offering a refund in many cases (true some are for other reasons like interest etc) and yet soon as filed ..wallop an offer:censored:. So what are you supposed to do.?

Judges seem to be going the same way. Honestly re read the para about the 'bells' and you might see what I am talking about. I am sure the girl was not a simpleton as thats how I read the transcript at the beginning.
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Yes I understand, however in some cases the banks are lying their :censored: off! As was the truth in my O/H's case.

HI

You are very astute if i may say, that is exactly what the judge is doing, notice the bit were he says something like, "obvioulsy honest and upright citisen", if his tongue was any further in his cheek he would have to see a dentist.

The truth is that the case was based on the other three points, mainly that the prescribed term for credit was incorrectly labled, the "no copy agreement" was an after thought to the main argument, she thought she would not have to use it, hence the half hearted response.

Peter

[pt2537]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

The fact was and its not clear from the transcript but she changed her position from her witness statement

what she said in the statement was the terms were not provided, but the rest of the application was

on the stand she said she couldnt recall the cover letter or any of the other contents.

Problem with that was that the cover letter told her where to send the application when completed. without it the judge pointed out to her in the hearing transcript, she could never have known where to send the application which she conceded, and thus her evidence was discredited

hope this helps the debate

Laterz

[TUTTSI]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

PT trying to contact you urgently, ur PM's are off

Sorry Milly for the message xx

[Guest]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

The fact was and its not clear from the transcript but she changed her position from her witness statement

what she said in the statement was the terms were not provided, but the rest of the application was

on the stand she said she couldnt recall the cover letter or any of the other contents.

Problem with that was that the cover letter told her where to send the application when completed. without it the judge pointed out to her in the hearing transcript, she could never have known where to send the application which she conceded, and thus her evidence was discredited

hope this helps the debate

Laterz

Yes thanks.

So if this had not occured and the case would have been won, would this have altered the position of all those who challenged their agreements on the "Applied limit", "Incorrect interest rates", scenario ? Which was the main thrust of your argument as i remember.

Were people also advised to say that they had not seen thier T and Cs?

The prescribed term issues were supposed to set important precedents for the hundreds of people who stopped paying their contracts.

Peter

[millymollymoo]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

The fact was and its not clear from the transcript but she changed her position from her witness statement

what she said in the statement was the terms were not provided, but the rest of the application was

on the stand she said she couldnt recall the cover letter or any of the other contents.

Problem with that was that the cover letter told her where to send the application when completed. without it the judge pointed out to her in the hearing transcript, she could never have known where to send the application which she conceded, and thus her evidence was discredited

hope this helps the debate

Laterz

Thanks PT :tinysmile_grin_t:
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PT trying to contact you urgently, ur PM's are off

Sorry Milly for the message xx

Hey hunbun sorry for what message lol xxxxxx

[basa48]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

Yes thanks.

So if this had not occured and the case would have been won, would this have altered the position of all those who challenged their agreements on the "Applied limit", "Incorrect interest rates", scenario ? Which was the main thrust of your argument as i remember.

Were people also advised to say that they had not seen thier T and Cs?

I believe that the prescribrd term issues were the points that were the inportant presedents for the hundreds of people who stoped paying their contracts.

Peter

I think it would be difficult to argue you have not seen the T&Cs whilst arguing the meaning of 'limit' or the way the interest rate was quoted. Those two items being part of the T&Cs.

To me this is where the case fell down in that on one hand there was an argument about the meanings of certain terms and on the other that the creditor suggesting she never saw the terms?????

[Guest]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

I think it would be difficult to argue you have not seen the T&Cs whilst arguing the meaning of 'limit' or the way the interest rate was quoted. Those two items being part of the T&Cs.

To me this is where the case fell down in that on one hand there was an argument about the meanings of certain terms and on the other that the creditor suggesting she never saw the terms?????

I think it would be difficult to argue you have not seen the T&Cs whilst arguing the meaning of 'limit' or the way the interest rate was quoted. Those two items being part of the T&Cs.

To me this is where the case fell down in that on one hand there was an argument about the meanings of certain terms and on the other that the creditor suggesting she never saw the terms?????

HI

Yes and neither argument had any real merit

Pet

[Guest]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

HI
Just as a point it is perfectly reasonable to argue incorrect execution under section 61 and lack of copy agreements under section 62.
The prescribed terms would have had to be included in the signature document, the T and Cs could be a separate document.
Peter

[millymollymoo]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

I am not trying to sidetrack but just wondered what happens when a card is lost or stolen and a new account number is given and on the CRA's report shows the original card account as now closed with a zero balance. However any remaining balnce is then put on the new account.

Does the original Credit agreement cover the new card or should there be a new credit agreement?

Milly

[pt2537]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

Yes thanks.

So if this had not occured and the case would have been won, would this have altered the position of all those who challenged their agreements on the "Applied limit", "Incorrect interest rates", scenario ? Which was the main thrust of your argument as i remember.

Were people also advised to say that they had not seen thier T and Cs?

The prescribed term issues were supposed to set important precedents for the hundreds of people who stopped paying their contracts.

Peter

not gonna get drawn into this again peter so dont bother

all i will say on the subject was that the dishonesty clearly swayed the judge into siding with the Defendants interpretation

as i said i had a barrister prepared to work on no win no fee which means that he risk assessed the case and thought the prospects were good and the case was arguable. our view was the same.

Furthermore if the case was void of merit then the court has a duty under the overriding objective to strike out the claim under its own motion

so fact of the matter is the case was arguable

[Guest]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

not gonna get drawn into this again peter so dont bother

all i will say on the subject was that the dishonesty clearly swayed the judge into siding with the Defendants interpretation

as i said i had a barrister prepared to work on no win no fee which means that he risk assessed the case and thought the prospects were good and the case was arguable. our view was the same.

Furthermore if the case was void of merit then the court has a duty under the overriding objective to strike out the claim under its own motion

so fact of the matter is the case was arguable

HI Paul nice to se you , you are becoming quite a regular over here.

Fact is Paul anything is arguable. the judge said" It was beyond sense for anyone reading the words to think that it would be open to the Claimant to set herself a limit higher than that approved of by the Defendant."

And that was one of his kinder coments.

Lets not forget that Ms Slater was the claiment in this, why did she just not wait for the company to take her to court and then appeal if she lost to the high court. I think we both know the reason, and that is because these claims had been lost many times before and no permission to appeal had been granted due to the lack of merit.

Peter

[Guest]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

Yes and the next question is, Why would she feel that she had to go to court to try and set precedent anyway?

Any ideas

[Guest]

Re: Alexandra Slater v Egg Banking Plc August 9th 2010

I am not trying to sidetrack but just wondered what happens when a card is lost or stolen and a new account number is given and on the CRA's report shows the original card account as now closed with a zero balance. However any remaining balnce is then put on the new account.

Does the original Credit agreement cover the new card or should there be a new credit agreement?

Milly

HI Milly

I do not think that they would have have set up a new or modifying agreement as long as all the terms and conditions of the new card remain the same, howeveer section 85 of the act say that they should have sent you a set of the T and Cs that apply to the agreement allong with the new card.
Peter