Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

[TiredofPaying]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Hi Prism, I was so slow at putting up a reply that quite a few arrived before me and I didn't see your comment.

I have one creditor who has sent several DNs. Each one slightly different. They obviously hope that one of them is right. Incredibly, for a bank with lots of everybody's money, none of them are right (thankfully!).

ToP

[Prism]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Hi Prism,

you say you are in court 19th August which is next week I was hoping you could say how they have asked you to appear. Is this via the blue N1 County Court Claim form? If so, does it mention any document under the Particulars of Claim? If it does then you are entitled to send a CPR31.14 (as previously mentioned by Shamen) to ask for a copy of the document as you can't defend the claim unless you see on what they are basing their claim. It's unlikely that you will get to see any doc before the 19th. Are you sure that you have to be in court or is that a date that is on the blue N1 claim form?

By the way, I was looking at your first DN and IF IT WAS SENT 2nd class (is that 'flat rate' as shown in the little box at the top?) then it does not give you enough time to remedy the breach. 4th Nov gives a service date of 9th Nov and a remedy date of 23rd Nov. Your DN says 21st Nov. The mandatory paragraph following the remedy date says that 'If the action required by this notice is taken BEFORE the date shown' which means the 20th or earlier. Confusing or what? You are supposed to be left in no doubt as to what you are supposed to do and by when you are supposed to do it.

Sorry if I missed something in one of your replies but I need to know more about the 19th Aug. Is this an actual appearance date or just a reply by date.

ToP

Thanks for this buddy.

I first disovered that I had a default judgement when I received it through the post from Northampton county court.

I then filled in a form N244 to have the judgement set aside as my CMC had misrepresented me. At the same time, it was transfered to Norwich County Court where I had an interim charging order placed against my property.

Norwich county court then received my N244 to have it set aside and it was then transfered to my local county court!!

I went though a similar episode last month and lost in court against Tesco. There was an enforceable agreement and my defence was based on the DN being 2 days out. My fault but the judge was not interested as the first time I raised it was on the day of court. It did not form part of my defence??

Must not make same mistake again!!!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

You should be able to use CPR 15.5 to obtain an extension, in order to prepare your defence;
you cannot defend until you have obtained full dislcosure of documents;
the application is made on an N244 form.
http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...rts/part15.htm

Please, be aware that you must also make your CPR 31.14 request to RBS.

[Prism]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

You should be able to use CPR 15.5 to obtain an extension, in order to prepare your defence;
you cannot defend until you have obtained full dislcosure of documents;
the application is made on an N244 form.
http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/proc...rts/part15.htm

Please, be aware that you must also make your CPR 31.14 request to RBS.

Thanks Angry Cat,

Do I need agreement with the applicant before I send the form N244 to request an extension?

Do you know whether there is a fee for this?

Thanks

Prism

[Angry Cat]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Thanks Angry Cat,

Do I need agreement with the applicant before I send the form N244 to request an extension?

Do you know whether there is a fee for this?

Thanks

Prism

Yes.
I believe the cost is about £80

The problem is, you are running out of time.

[Prism]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Yes.
I believe the cost is about £80

The problem is, you are running out of time.

Letter posted special delivery but won't get there until Friday as the postman has left!

Will I have to have agreement with the claimant first Angry Cat before I complete the form N244? If yes, can this only happen after seven days of me posting my CPR31.14 request today?

Sorry to keep on probing but I need to know my next move!

Thanks

Prism

[Angry Cat]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

greement extending the period for filing a defence
15.5

(1) The defendant and the claimant may agree that the period for filing a defence specified in rule 15.4 shall be extended by up to 28 days.

(2) Where the defendant and the claimant agree to extend the period for filing a defence, the defendant must notify the court in writing."

Could you not send RBS a fax?

[TiredofPaying]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Hi Prism, I'm up to speed now. OK, it's not that fast. I see you are much further down the line than I but it would appear that you've attracted some help.

By the way, I was looking at your second DN and IF IT WAS SENT 2nd class (is that 'flat rate' as shown in the little box at the top?) then it would appear to give you enough time to remedy the breach. 6th Jan gives a service date of 11th Jan and a remedy date of 25th Jan. However the mandatory paragraph following the remedy date says that 'If the action required by this notice is taken BEFORE the date shown' which means the 24th or earlier which does not give you enough time. Confusing or what? That's my own personal opinion and I would be pleased if somebody pointed out any error.

ToP

[Prism]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Angry Cat,

I have posted the request already. Even if I send it via Fax, they will not have to respond until the court day and no point asking for an extension then!!

What do you guys suggest next?

The hearing has been set aside for the 19th on the grounds that I said I have a complete defence to the claimant's case as there in no enforceable agreement.
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Hi Prism, I'm up to speed now. OK, it's not that fast. I see you are much further down the line than I but it would appear that you've attracted some help.

By the way, I was looking at your second DN and IF IT WAS SENT 2nd class (is that 'flat rate' as shown in the little box at the top?) then it would appear to give you enough time to remedy the breach. 6th Jan gives a service date of 11th Jan and a remedy date of 25th Jan. However the mandatory paragraph following the remedy date says that 'If the action required by this notice is taken BEFORE the date shown' which means the 24th or earlier which does not give you enough time. Confusing or what? That's my own personal opinion and I would be pleased if somebody pointed out any error.

ToP

Thanks for the response.

If i wish to use the default notice being faulty as my defence is is too late bearing in mind the hearing is next week?

Should I make the claimant / courts aware first?

Thanks

Prism

[TiredofPaying]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

The two DNs also appear to me to terminate the agreement by saying that if you don't remedy the breach by paying the amount by the date stated that the creditor intends to require immediate payment on the Net Amount Oustanding. If this is the case then the first DN appears to have terminated the agreement via an invalid DN and if you didn't pay you may be able to argue unlawful rescission. No doubt somebody else would like to comment on that as I am not legally qualified.

Anybody care to comment? I don't want to send Prism off to court full of false hope and optimism.

ToP

[Angry Cat]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

The hearing has been set aside for the 19th on the grounds that I said I have a complete defence to the claimant's case as there in no enforceable agreement Prism

Please forgive my confusion.
You now state that you have a complete defence to the claimant's case as there is no enforceable agreement.
But, it would appear that you do not have a copy of same!
One cannot just say, there is no enforceable agreement.
Arguments have to be made as to why the agreement would be deemed unenforceable.

With regards to the DN(s), what date were they served/received by you?
and have you kept the envelopes in which they were delivered?

[Prism]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Please forgive my confusion.
You now state that you have a complete defence to the claimant's case as there is no enforceable agreement.
But, it would appear that you do not have a copy of same!
One cannot just say, there is no enforceable agreement.
Arguments have to be made as to why the agreement would be deemed unenforceable.

With regards to the DN(s), what date were they served/received by you?
and have you kept the envelopes in which they were delivered?

I gave my defence on a wing and a prayer as I had to have it set aside or accept the debt.

I have not seen the cca and I know that the CMC did request it on my behalf. This does not mean that one does not exist.

I have sent the letter today requesting for it amongst other documents.

My first DN was sent 4th November 2009, given till 21st November 2009.

The second DN was sent 6th January 2010, given till 25th January 2010.

Here is the link to the DN's again:

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6811/rbsdn1page1.png

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5600/rbsdn1page2.png

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2469/rbsdn2page1.png

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/733/rbsdn2page2.png

Unfortunately I did not keep the envelopes!

[Angry Cat]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

I gave my defence on a wing and a prayer as I had to have it set aside or accept the debt.

I have not seen the cca and I know that the CMC did request it on my behalf. This does not mean that one does not exist.

I have sent the letter today requesting for it amongst other documents.

My first DN was sent 4th November 2009, given till 21st November 2009.

The second DN was sent 6th January 2010, given till 25th January 2010.

Here is the link to the DN's again:

http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/6811/rbsdn1page1.png

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5600/rbsdn1page2.png

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/2469/rbsdn2page1.png

http://img638.imageshack.us/img638/733/rbsdn2page2.png

Unfortunately I did not keep the envelopes!

Unfortunately, I think that you would have a hard job proving that you were not given sufficient time re: the DN's
Pity that you did not retain the envelopes nor, make a note of when they were delivered to you.

[TiredofPaying]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Hi Prism, don't worry too much about not keeping the envelopes but try and hang on to them in the future. If you received them in less than 2 days for 1st class or less than 4 days if 2nd class then I would keep that bit of info under your hat as you never know who's watching. Don't want to get to court and have some computer savvy oppo say that you've admitted that the DN arrived before the time allowed, now do we??? Most creditors appear to send their DNs the equivalent of 2nd class. I've got a doc that helps you work out which service and how long, just got to locate it!

ToP

[Prism]

Re: Defence help - two default notices sent for one agreement

Thanks Top, that document would be appreciated.

How do you guys suggest I include it in my defence. Should I forward it to the claimant and also to the courts asap, ie tomorrow?
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Also would the claimant and their solicitors be that stupid and take me to court if they did not have an enforceable agreement?