Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

[wales01man]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

i can see a miracle happening if this drags out to 2921 and the loan is not repaid?

The documentation will appear from the banks archives this cannot be the only paperwork for a large secured loan that's missing???? at the moment

[Streetwise]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

i can see a miracle happening if this drags out to 2921 and the loan is not repaid?

The documentation will appear from the banks archives this cannot be the only paperwork for a large secured loan that's missing???? at the moment

I think the O.P. said 2021,possibly the bank could reconstruct an agreement.

If the new S.A.R. returns with the wording we do not have the loan agreement,then that is that they won't have it.

Still awaiting a reply from Andy58.

From reading around the bank seems to have lost a lot of agreements, PANDORAS BOX is about to be opened.

[wales01man]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

It may take till 2921 to find the agreement?

I got fat finger on keyboard syndrome LOL

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

The loan could be restructured quite simply and let us not forget that the OP's home is at risk.

The payment break of 9 months seems to have been the major issue, we don't yet know the terms of that agreement, whether interest continued to accure and on what basis. After the break the amount payable should have increased to cover the gap and bring the account back in line to finish on the right date - Instead they told her to pay less than she had been doing previously. That may indicate it wasn't a fixed rate loan but a base rate tracker ? (2009 was when the base rate went down from 1.5 to 0.5%) so legitimately that could have been the case, but whatever it was it was calculated incorrectly as no consideration appears to have been given to making the 9 months up within the original term....cynical of us may say that is so they can repossess.

It does appear that the OP's original SAR only asked for the copy of the agreement, so hopefully a full SAR will show up a lot more information.

[Streetwise]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

It may take till 2921 to find the agreement?

I got fat finger on keyboard syndrome LOL

For 250K they will have checked the drains,but this does not help the O.P. they are trying to find away to move forward.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

Just some brief complete guess work calcs.

Say the rate was 1.5% above base rate

Loan taken out in 2006 base rate was about 5% then so she may have been paying 6.5%.

If it wasn't a base rate tracker then those payments will have continued until her 9 month break in 2009.

If after the break they couldn't find the agreement (or any records bizarely) they may have assumed it was a tracker? or just used their current rate ? and by then the base rate was down to 0.5% hence the lower payments, possibly at 2%?

For example in 2006 the payments could have been £2,177.77 monthly whereas after the break could have been £1600 odd.

What would help would be if the OP could give us an idea of the repayment amounts pre break and post break.

Whatever, something has gone really wrong, and the OP shouldn't end up being disadvantaged, or losing her home, because of it, and the £300 compensation for natwest losing her agreement is laughable.

[Streetwise]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

The loan could be restructured quite simply and let us not forget that the OP's home is at risk.

The payment break of 9 months seems to have been the major issue, we don't yet know the terms of that agreement, whether interest continued to accure and on what basis. After the break the amount payable should have increased to cover the gap and bring the account back in line to finish on the right date - Instead they told her to pay less than she had been doing previously. That may indicate it wasn't a fixed rate loan but a base rate tracker ? (2009 was when the base rate went down from 1.5 to 0.5%) so legitimately that could have been the case, but whatever it was it was calculated incorrectly as no consideration appears to have been given to making the 9 months up within the original term....cynical of us may say that is so they can repossess.

It does appear that the OP's original SAR only asked for the copy of the agreement, so hopefully a full SAR will show up a lot more information.

What bothers me is the bank told the O.P. that they were going to instruct solicitors on the 31/8/2011.But nothing has happened,surely the bank just can't go around making threats like this and not acting on them or can they.:beagle:

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

What bothers me is the bank told the O.P. that they were going to instruct solicitors on the 31/8/2011.But nothing has happened,surely the bank just can't go around making threats like this and not acting on them or can they.:beagle:

They may well have realised the monumental cock up they have made, and the case has been at the FOS for some of the time and she appears to have continued payments and kept in constant contact with them.

The letter re solicitors also states that payments have been returned since April 2010? which wasn't the case.

We need to work out what happened, what needs to happen next to get things back on a level, and whose responsibility the shortfall is (and I'm thinking it is the banks)

[Streetwise]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

This is not a regulated agreement.
You cannot play the prescribed terms game here, attempting to frustrate the court will result in costs being awarded when the judgment is eventually passed down.

The bank will know full well how much is owed, the issue here is if they have terminated the original agreement and if so are they willing to enter into a new one, in order to repay the balance.

It would be far better for the OP to keep this out of the court room altogether.

Come on Andy who is trying to frustrate who here.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

If it helps I agree, you can't play prescribed terms games, the agreement is exempt as 1) It was 2006 and over £25k anyway, and 2) It was for business purposes. I don't think it was to buy the property (the loan was to set up bar/restaurant business) but was secured upon the property.

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

I would not stop making the regular payments you have been making, and I've never suggested that in any of my posts, but I would reconsider paying them the extra to put the loan back in order until you have seen a solicitor.

The ombudsman saying that as the account was in arrears then the bank were well within their rights to ask for the loan to be repaid is correct but the bank also have an obligation to be fair and look at all other options before trying to repossess.

If the bank have refused to reach an agreement in repayments being made for the term of the loan and have said they want the full amount, have they issued repossession proceedings against you?, is there a pending court hearing?

Have they threatened to take you to court to repossess?

How do they know the term of the loan ends in 2021?, Can they prove it?



How do they know how much is officially outstanding to reach the payments they are demanding? Can they prove it?

Have they got a record of all your payments before the payment break?, OR do they only have a record of the payments you have made once you resumed payments after the payment break?

Think of it from their point of view and ask yourself, how can I prove to a judge this person owes me this much when I can't produce any evidence to support my claim in court, or any evidence that my figures are 100% correct in accordance with the terms of the original loan agreement?

Send a new SAR by recorded delivery and wait for their response.

SAR will go in the post in a min!!
No proceedings ... yet
Threatenend in July 2011
15 year term from Feb 2006, ending in 2021, which we agree on.
Yes to records prior to holiday break, this is where it all went wrong I think.
SAR reply willshed more light Im sure.

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

Yes, you are correct in saying it will be recorded in the mortgage deed and the charge on the property but it won't show the terms and conditions contained in the actual agreement only the actual mortgage charge deeds signed by the borrower to secure the charge. If they kept a copy of the original agreement then the bank would have requested a copy and passed it to the customer when the OP requested it.

That will show that there was an agreement between the two parties but will not prove how long the agreement was for, for how much, what the interest rates were, etc.

The borrower could technically sit down with a pen and paper, work out how much they want to pay per month between now and the end of the term of the original loan, 2021, and argue that the figures are what they believed they still owed on the loan yet they are vastly different to the lenders and contested as strongly.

How does the lender prove the borrowers figures are wrong and theirs are correct if they do not have the original agreement to support their figures?

If the lender keeps hesitating to issue repossession proceedings it could indicate that they too know they cannot produce the evidence they would need to secure a judgement in their favour or they would have produced it when the OP requested it.

The bank replied they didn't have a copy of it, and if they did, he could have had a copy for free.

They just cannot prove an exact amount of what is owed and you cannot just say to a judge, "they probably owe us about £xxxxxxx", the judge would tell them to come back when they can produce an exact amount which again, the customer could always dispute it's accuracy until such time as the lender produces the original loan agreement to verify their figures.

Would be a very long adjournment!

World record!!!!!:tinysmile_twink_t2:

Thank you !! I had thought exactly the same in regard to me continuing this amount for the full term and how would they argue, after all it was what they have told me I should pay. For the numbers men and girls !! here and featured in a later post - the amounts were 1800 and now 700. could it be that that someone didnt know if it was a repayment or interest only loan, as they couldnt find the agreement and or the change in interest rates would have had an impact, the loan as I recall was tracked at a little over base rate. For those of you that wonder why, I wish to keep the loan in place as I can not borrow at this rate elsewhere.
But would they really need the original agreement in order to secure the judgement? mixed responses on this one.

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

This is not a regulated agreement.
You cannot play the prescribed terms game here, attempting to frustrate the court will result in costs being awarded when the judgment is eventually passed down.

The bank will know full well how much is owed, the issue here is if they have terminated the original agreement and if so are they willing to enter into a new one, in order to repay the balance.

It would be far better for the OP to keep this out of the court room altogether.

I asked them to restructure the loan more than 2 years ago and they said this one would have to be cleared, and for the reasons above (previous reply) the loan is at a low rate due to the interest rates. Getting another loan out of them would not be easy I Im sure. They are just not making money out of me and have the charge so im easy pickings.

[Jackien]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

The loan could be restructured quite simply and let us not forget that the OP's home is at risk.

The payment break of 9 months seems to have been the major issue, we don't yet know the terms of that agreement, whether interest continued to accure and on what basis. After the break the amount payable should have increased to cover the gap and bring the account back in line to finish on the right date - Instead they told her to pay less than she had been doing previously. That may indicate it wasn't a fixed rate loan but a base rate tracker ? (2009 was when the base rate went down from 1.5 to 0.5%) so legitimately that could have been the case, but whatever it was it was calculated incorrectly as no consideration appears to have been given to making the 9 months up within the original term....cynical of us may say that is so they can repossess.

It does appear that the OP's original SAR only asked for the copy of the agreement, so hopefully a full SAR will show up a lot more information.

God I was naive, there was no agreement in writing re the payment holiday, nothing at all, nothing outlining how it would eventually be repaid, again I wonder if i hadnt called to say at the end of it, 'hey!! I want to pay now'
where would we be lol.

[Amethyst]

Re: Nat west business loan - cant find agreement

Well 250k over 15 years repayment without any interest at all is £1,389 per month so paying £700 a month now is worrying. £1800 a month is around 3.6% (which for 2006 would have been amazing!)
So sounds like it was Interest Only ... Also as far as you are concerned the original loan was it repayment or interest only?

Interest Only @ £700 a month would be a 3.5% interest rate
Interest Only @ £1800 a month would be around 8.65% interest rate

So could be 3% above base rate on interest only ?


Do you have a policy or something in place to make the capital repayment at the end of the term ?

We can't do anything until the SAR comes back.

Out of interest do you have something in writing from them saying the new payment amount of approx £700 ?