smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

[FlamingParrot]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Have you replied to that letter from the solicitors at all? If not, you should reply with something along these lines:

Letter

Dear Sirs

Re your letter dated 30th October 2012.

Thank you for your letter, the contents of which i have noted.

Since your letter clearly refers to the threat of litigation, i am treating it as a formal letter of claim albeit an entirely defective one.

I refer you to the Civil Procedure Rules pre action protocol practice direction, in particular Annex A and Annex B, you will note your letter fails spectacuralry to comply with either of the aforesaid Annexes.

Since you are a firm of solicitors, i cannot excuse such failures and place you on notice that any litigation on the back of this letter will result in an immediate application to the Court requesting the matter stayed with costs against you and your client on the indemnity basis. I refer you to Para 4.6 of the Practice Direction which explains the consequences of non compliance with the Pre action protocol.

Turning to the subject matter of your letter, this matter is subject of a dispute which has been raised with your clients representatives and therefore it would be appropriate before you threaten litigation for your clients client to actively deal with the issues which i have raised.

The main crux of my dispute is .................................................. ......

Accordingly and in accordance with the CPR pre action protocol practice direction i look forward to your reply setting out correctly the nature of your clients claim and answering my dispute as stated above.

Regards

You will have to establish what the crux of your dispute is, bearing in mind that, if this was an overdraft, then they are right to say a s.77-79 CCA request doesn't apply, there wouldn't have been a credit agreement in the first place because this would have been a current account. For reference, this is the information that banks have a duty to supply on a current account: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/part/VA

74A Information to be provided on a current account agreement
(1)This section applies to a current account agreement where—
(a)there is the possibility that the account-holder may be allowed to overdraw on the current account without a pre-arranged overdraft or exceed a pre-arranged overdraft limit, and
(b)if the account-holder did so, this would be a regulated consumer credit agreement.

(2) The current account agreement must include the following information at the time it is made—
(a)the rate of interest charged on the amount by which an account-holder overdraws on the current account or exceeds the pre-arranged overdraft limit,
(b)any conditions applicable to that rate,
(c)any reference rate on which that rate is based,
(d)information on any changes to the rate of interest (including the periods that the rate applies and any conditions or procedure applicable to changing that rate), and
(e)any other charges payable by the debtor under the agreement (and the conditions under which those charges may be varied).

(3)The account-holder must be informed in writing at least annually of the information in subsection (2).

(4)For the purposes of subsections (2) and (3) where different rates of interest are charged in different circumstances, the creditor must provide the information in subsection (2)(a) to (d) in respect of each rate.

(5)Subsection (3) does not apply where the overdraft or excess would be secured on land.

74B Information to be provided on significant overdrawing without prior arrangement

(1)Where—

(a)the holder of a current account overdraws on the account without a pre-arranged overdraft, or exceeds a pre-arranged overdraft limit, for a period exceeding one month,
(b)the amount of that overdraft or excess is significant throughout that period,
(c)that overdraft or excess is a regulated consumer credit agreement, and
(d)the account-holder has not been informed in writing of the matters mentioned in subsection (2) within that period,
the account-holder must be informed in writing of those matters without delay.

(2) The matters referred to in subsection (1) are—
(a)the fact that the current account is overdrawn or the overdraft limit has been exceeded,
(b)the amount of that overdraft or excess,
(c)the rate of interest charged on it, and
(d)any other charges payable by the debtor in relation to it (including any penalties and any interest on those charges).

(3) For the purposes of subsection (1)(b) the amount of the overdraft or excess is to be treated as significant if—
(a)the account-holder is liable to pay a charge for which he would not otherwise be liable,
(b)the overdraft or excess is likely to have an adverse effect on the debtor's ability to receive further credit (including any effect on the information about the debtor held by a credit reference agency), or
(c)it otherwise appears significant, having regard to all the circumstances.

(4)  Where the overdraft or excess is secured on land, subsection (1)(a) is to be read as if the reference to one month were a reference to three months.

...and these Amendments to the Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010

9. In regulation 21 (current account overdrafts), in the wording inserted as section 74A (information to be provided on a current account agreement)—
(a)for subsection (1) substitute—
“74A.—(1) This section applies to a current account agreement where—
(a)there is the possibility that the account-holder may be allowed to overdraw on the current account without a pre-arranged overdraft or exceed a pre-arranged overdraft limit, and
(b)if the account-holder did so, this would be a regulated consumer credit agreement.”;
(b)in subsection (3) after “must be informed” insert “in writing”.

[jon1965]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Can someone just make it clear..
If you go over an authorised OD does it become regulated OR is it possible that it MAY become regulated

In 9b is that an may or a will

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Have you replied to that letter from the solicitors at all? If not, you should reply with something along these lines:

You will have to establish what the crux of your dispute is, bearing in mind that, if this was an overdraft, then they are right to say a s.77-79 CCA request doesn't apply, there wouldn't have been a credit agreement in the first place because this would have been a current account. For reference, this is the information that banks have a duty to supply on a current account: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/part/VA

...and thise Amendments to the Consumer Credit (EU Directive) Regulations 2010

Flaming Parrot do i send the first letters to the solicitor or al 3 letter advise please

The main crux of my dispute is . ( any ideas what i can put in this section please the account was well overdrawn thanks

[FlamingParrot]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Flaming Parrot do i send the first letters to the solicitor or al 3 letter advise please

The main crux of my dispute is . ( any ideas what i can put in this section please the account was well overdrawn thanks

Sorry for not making it clear, the letter is just the first one, the other two quotes are from the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as per linked sources. I provided that text for your reference so you can get an idea as to what you could use as grounds for dispute, this depends on the specific circumstances, such as whether there was an arraned O/D in the first place or not and whether the bank allowed you to exceed your arranged O/D limit. The bank should supply the information noted under s.74A and s.74B (if relevant) annually.

I have amended my post to make it clearer that only the first quoted text is the letter itself, the rest is for reference.

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Sorry for not making it clear, the letter is just the first one, the other two quotes are from the Consumer Credit Act 1974 as per linked sources. I provided that text for your reference so you can get an idea as to what you could use as grounds for dispute, this depends on the specific circumstances, such as whether there was an arraned O/D in the first place or not and whether the bank allowed you to exceed your arranged O/D limit. The bank should supply the information noted under s.74A and s.74B (if relevant) annually.

I have amended my post to make it clearer that only the first quoted text is the letter itself, the rest is for reference.

so if the bank allowed me exceed your arranged O/D limit i put that as crufix

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

hi sent this to first credit hi there could please supply a copy of the original credit agreement stating what the ovedraft limited was and im seeking further information will be in touch in 28 days once i receive this information thankyou


reply i got back was this

Date: 26/07/2013


Our Ref:


Dear Miss


1st Credit (Finance) Limited – Halifax - Outstanding Debt: £1,410.45
Thank you for your recent correspondence.
The original creditor has informed us that they are unable to supply a copy of the original
credit agreement at this time, we have however requested that the client provide us with
the details of your overdraft limit and will forward this to you once we are in receipt.
Yours faithfully,
Connaught Collection

adivise plesae

[FlamingParrot]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Well, they've taken their time, haven't they? Not a bad thing in this case. :thumb:

All they're saying above is that they will provide you the information requested in due course - which, if past history is anything to go by, could be another 4 months!

No response is necessary at this point, let's see what they come up with next. :grin:

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

letter of 1st credit connaught collections 26.7.2013

thank you for your recent correspondence

the original creditor has informed us that they are unable to supply a copy of the original
credit agreement at this time we have however requested that the client provide us with
the details of your overdraft limit and will forward this to you once we are in receipt.

thats halifax

[FlamingParrot]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Sounds good! As this was an O/D, there wouldn't be a credit agreement as such, but they should still provide the information requested. Going by past history, it may well be another few months of peace and quiet. :thumb:

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

Sounds good! As this was an O/D, there wouldn't be a credit agreement as such, but they should still provide the information requested. Going by past history, it may well be another few months of peace and quiet. :thumb:

halifax just kept puting over daft up and up


1st credit recorded default on 6 july 20013 when checked credit file

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

connaught never sent info i asked for on phone regardeing overdraft
they dont want to settle the dispute i pointed out to them befor halifax sold it to them
halifax wouldnt settle dispute overdraft was £1,100 to day stands £1,410.45



connaught collections
we refer to the above matter and our numerous attemps to resolve this matter via correspondence and telephone
we are disappointed that we have failed to agree upon an arrangement to settle this matter
in view of the above we have as to days date forwarded your account to our solicitors WALKER MORRIS
for the purposes of recoverying the outstanding monies on our behalf
you will in due course be contacted by them directly whilst your account remains with them any payments or corresponence in relation to this matter should be sent directly to their office

[FlamingParrot]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

connaught never sent info i asked for on phone regardeing overdraft
they dont want to settle the dispute i pointed out to them befor halifax sold it to them
halifax wouldnt settle dispute overdraft was £1,100 to day stands £1,410.45

connaught collections
we refer to the above matter and our numerous attemps to resolve this matter via correspondence and telephone
we are disappointed that we have failed to agree upon an arrangement to settle this matter
in view of the above we have as to days date forwarded your account to our solicitors WALKER MORRIS
for the purposes of recoverying the outstanding monies on our behalf
you will in due course be contacted by them directly whilst your account remains with them any payments or corresponence in relation to this matter should be sent directly to their office

Well, they've taken their time, haven't they? :clock:

We'll just have to wait for Walker Morris to contact you, when they do, post up here. :typing:

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

1st credit
walker Morris solictors DATED 28 OCT 2013

we act for 1 st credit finance limited
we are instructed by 1 st credit finance limited that you enterd into a written agreement numberd xxxxxxx with the bank of scotland the creditor the agreement was regulated by the consumer credit act 1974

the monies resulting from this agreement were payable by you together with intrest and any charges at the rate and times specified in the agreement however you failed to adhere to the terms of the agreement and you failed to take the opportunity to remedy your breach

in the light of the above the creditor assigned the agreement to 1st credit finance limitted and that by a notice in writing you were informed of the assignment

we understand that 1 st credit finance limited through its agent 1st credit limited and 1st credit limited tradeing as connaught collections have made further written and oral reqests for payment of the assigned sum that is due and oweing by you however you failed to pay the sum and the balance due is 1410.45

our client looks forward to receiving 1410.54 within 16 DAYS of date of this letter you can pay useing theses methods ch bd..............
we look forward to hearing from you and receiving full response within the 16 DAYS but if we do not receive the 1410.45 then we are instructed that our client to issue court proceedings for the 1410.45 pluss intrest and court fees

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
THE INFORMATION RQYESTED BY ME 1ST CREDIT NEVER SENT
NOR HAVE THEY PHONED ME
NOR ANY LETTERS SINCE THE 1 SAYING NO ACTION TO BE TAKEN TILL INFORMATION YOU RQUESTED AS BEEN SENT TO YOU

[smith]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

bumping for help

[FlamingParrot]

Re: smith v halifax & first credit overdraft

1st credit
walker Morris solictors DATED 28 OCT 2013

THE INFORMATION RQYESTED BY ME 1ST CREDIT NEVER SENT
NOR HAVE THEY PHONED ME
NOR ANY LETTERS SINCE THE 1 SAYING NO ACTION TO BE TAKEN TILL INFORMATION YOU RQUESTED AS BEEN SENT TO YOU

I would reply with something similar to the letter on my post 31 above: http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...592#post327592 which was sent to Moon Beaver. Under the crux of the dispute, mention that their clients never supplied you with the information you requested with regards to your O/D:

letter of 1st credit connaught collections 26.7.2013

thank you for your recent correspondence

the original creditor has informed us that they are unable to supply a copy of the original
credit agreement at this time we have however requested that the client provide us with
the details of your overdraft limit and will forward this to you once we are in receipt.

thats halifax