Libor rates - sfo investigation

[Bill-K]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

...I feel I maybe a bit 'early' in puting in my claim/complaint however I have nothing to lose.

Hail to your pioneering spirit, Ruby !! I guess there will now be many others doing the same, and I think it will be very interesting to know their response. As I see it, they should have tracked your interest rate with the LIBOR rate, and you should have been among those who benefitted from the low rates that were set.

- since when was democracy about an elected govt deceiving its people

Hear, hear. Welcome, Rudiruby - and thank you for your insight. The political side of all this goes right over my head, so it is good to hear from someone who can grasp all that. FWIW, my view of democracy is that it has never been a guarantee of honesty - simply a guarantee to the populace of the choice to decide who rips them off next !!!

[Magrew]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

my view of democracy is that it has never been a guarantee of honesty - simply a guarantee to the populace of the choice to decide who rips them off next !!!

Now those are the words of a man who has walked a troubled path but has kept his wits sharp along the way.

Lucky If Banks Offer Reliability, could this be what LIBOR stands for?

Ruby, do you have any record of the false statement of the LIBOR rate or was it just verbal? If you have it in print your case will be much stronger.

[Bill-K]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

I'm sure our mutual friend CleverClogs will come up with some suggestions for the LIBOR abbrevo, as well, Mr. Magrew. Good game...good game !!!

I don't know how the LIBOR rate is actually used in arriving at the eventual interest rates charged in any month (or other period), but the historical rates may be available online. Possibly here:

http://www.bbalibor.com/

Even if we do not know how the calculations are made, it should be possible to draw up a 'timeline' of LIBOR rates, and run this in parallel with the actual rates charged on a LIBOR-linked loan (or credit facility). If the LIBOR rate drops, then the 'actual' rate should drop. If it didn't, then we appear to have a breach of the T&C's of the loan agreement by the lender.

[Magrew]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

The info is all available, to take it into a court though you will need to have it from an accredited and confirmed source.

http://www.fedprimerate.com/libor/li...hart-graph.htm

I would expect that this could be a prime candidate for a test case, I would not be the least surprised if there is some high profile legal who would want to have their name on this matter. It may make history.

[Ruby]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

I had a verbal conversation with the chap, however all their calls are recorded (?) The FACT that my rate of interest has not altered since Jan 2009 whilst the actual rate of Libor has dropped considerably since that period is I feel pretty strong evidence anyway.

I just googled libor rates and various bits of information came up.

My point exactly Bill-K, I strongly feel that the company are in breach of their T&C's!!!

I have, thankfully, a very comprehensive history of all correspondence between Advantage (now Arrow) and ourselves.

[Magrew]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

The 12 month Libor has changed a lot since Jan 2009 but the month rate hasn't changed hardly at all. You will need to be sure what is quoted in your T's & C's.

[Ruby]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

quote from their T & C's:-

Subject to giving you 7 days notice in writing we may vary your interest rate (a) to reflect a change which has ocurred or which we reasonably think will occur in the cost of funds used in our business , which are linked to the London Interbank Offered Rate (Libor).

Don't understand the difference between monthly and yearly rate? It has appeared in everything I have read that the Libor rate has been pretty steady at circa 1% since 2010.

[Magrew]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

Sounds like the 12 month rate, but again as Bill was saying the more certainty you have of their parameters the more secure your argument. You would expect a mortgage to be on the 12 month Libor but a short-term loan may be on the shorter period. However in your case you would expect that they would want to quote the highest value, to justify their higher rate, which is always the longest period (12 month).

Not trying to confuse, I am just showing that what appears clear can be muddied if it works to their advantage.

[Shadowcat]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

Bob has had to get himself a solicitor:

http://www.legalweek.com/legal-week/...-chief-diamond

[rudiruby]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

Sparkie - keen to get hold of you due to a post elsewhere on the forum - I would appreciate the info > can one private message so as not to mess this thread ? Thanks

[Crowie]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

Yep, if I remember from my law studies in college a hundred years ago, a contract needs to have i) an intention to create legal relations, ii) Offer, iii) Acceptance and iv) Consideration to be valid.

Any so-called contract to do something illegal falls foul of i) for starters.

[Crowie]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

It all depends how long the borrowing is taken over. For example, all the Banks lend/borrow billions overnight in the Money Markets which is where the daily LIBOR rate is derived from (it's this which did for Northern Rock - when they were looking for funding, the other lenders started to ask them how much of their assets were linked to US Sub-Prime borrowing. Like everyone else, they hadn't got a clue in the early park of the credit crunch, so the inter bank lenders increased their lending rate to a higher percentage than they were advertising loans and mortgages for to reflect the greater 'risk'). I believe LIBOR went up to 6% at one point which was higher than Base Rate (this was previously inconceivable).

Anyway, I digress. Longer term borrowings (anyone can invest large cash deposits on the money markets if they want) for fixed periods. This can be for a week, a month, 3 months, 6 months, a year etc. and the rates for these types of deposit, loan etc will depend on what the Bank THINK might happen with LIBOR, Base rate etc which is the gamble as the rates are fixed at the outset. Also open to 'manipulation' I suspect if you know the right people....

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/m...te-charts.html

This link explains it all pretty well

[Ruby]

Re: Libor rates - sfo investigation

Thanks Crowie - noted how rate soared in 2008/09 then plunged thereafter, remaining circa 1 % as my previous posts mentioned. Where does that leave me? I have been on the same Libor rate of 3.3% since Jan 2009!

Am I right in thinking then, from your post Crowie that Northern Rock/NRam used Libor too, instead of BOE rate?

If that is the case then both my main mortgage and second charge are potentially floored!