Packaged Account Fees

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I'm probably not going to be much help and don't know if I've got this right but from what I understand the 'benefit' that the adjudicator is concerned with is the preferential rate on your overdraft versus what you paid in account fees that were surplus to your requirements so maybe you should try and work out the savings you made on your overdraft rate compared to the overdraft rate you would have got with a free account, if you know what that is.

You are correct EXC thank you for that right so would bank statements show this? lol.

Like PPI will eventually get there lol.

[EXC]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I'm probably not going to be much help and don't know if I've got this right but from what I understand the 'benefit' that the adjudicator is concerned with is the preferential rate on your overdraft versus what you paid in account fees that were surplus to your requirements so maybe you should try and work out the savings you made on your overdraft rate compared to the overdraft rate you would have got with a free account, if you know what that is.

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Does anyone of you folks know what I should be looking for if you know please (on statements etc) I take it the calculations the adjudicator received are from statement/info Lloyds have sent them?
Thank you.

The gutting thing about this is that the adjudicator originally upheld it and lloyds decides at that point to forward these details last minute, why didnt they do this when they first sent the adjudicator info?? :-/

(Does Nattie still post on here)? xx

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Hi Di,

I haven't been through all your thread so you may well have gone through these bits already -alongside the add on ''benefits'' were there any preferential overdraft facilties/interest rates/returned item fees etc when compared to the free account. Having three fee paying accounts would surely cancel out the benefits on two of them - so that should be quite straightforwards to evidence those other accounts didnt save you money. Also I'm sure Nattie did a post ages ago about working out how much the benefits were actually worth to you - I'll have a hunt.

Ame
xx

Hi Ame
Thank you for your quick response.

I have statements going quite a way back so wonder if anything will arise on them, but the only benefit that was then beneficial was breakdown cover, everything else we had covered elsewhere, we even had separate home insurance to cover most with Lloyds as well. Never had issues in regards of returned/item fees. I am really not sure what free accounts entailed to be honest as I've never had one lol.

Good thinking on the fact that that having 3 fee paying accounts would cancel out the benefits on the 2 of them.

Reading through one of Natties post on here, I'm sure there are some benefits like ID theft etc is usually included free or paying account.

I appreciate it big time thank you Ame xx

[Amethyst]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Hi Di,

I haven't been through all your thread so you may well have gone through these bits already -alongside the add on ''benefits'' were there any preferential overdraft facilties/interest rates/returned item fees etc when compared to the free account. Having three fee paying accounts would surely cancel out the benefits on two of them - so that should be quite straightforwards to evidence those other accounts didnt save you money. Also I'm sure Nattie did a post ages ago about working out how much the benefits were actually worth to you - I'll have a hunt (mind you just read back a bit and he's posted quite a lot on here anyway :doggieyes: )

My basic roadside renewal was for £42 this year (I had it 'free' with home insurance last year).

Ame
xx

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Emailed our Adjudicator earlier due to some confusion in regards of packaged accounts and fee free and was told that she had to work out if we would have saved money if we did have a fee free account compared to packaged accounts, any help for this please folks as time is running out on this and we have a short time to forward any further info, am grateful thank you.
Email we just received below, thanks......

Dear Mr and Mrs

Thank you for your email.

Sorry for the confusion. You did not hold a fee free account - you have stated that you were not aware that this option was available to you. As we have discussed, you would have been eligible for a free account however you have had three different fee paying accounts with Lloyds. My understanding is that if you had been given the option of a free account, this is what you would have chosen.

I therefore need to work out whether you saved money by having the packaged accounts which offered a preferential rate on your overdraft. If you did save money by having the packaged accounts, I would be unable to say that you suffered any financial detriment - this is because it would have cost you more money to have a free account. As such even if there were shortcomings in the way the accounts were sold, if it saved you money I would be unable to conclude that you would have acted any differently had you been provided with the correct information.

I hope this makes sense and I appreciate it is quite complicated. If you require further clarification and would like to discuss this in more detail please call me on my direct line listed below.

Yours sincerely


Adjudicator
Financial Ombudsman Service

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I have a case at the moment with the FOS, where the adjudicator agreed to uphold the complaint which is a joint account (I have details on my own thread), but Lloyds have come back to say that we benefitted from the preferential rate via the overdraft and forwarded the calculations for the adjudicator to review.

Before I went joint with hubby, he has his own savings account and I had my own classic account with Lloyds, in about 2007 we decided to go joint but would only give us a packaged accounts, said that was the only option, so basically we have had packaged accounts all the way from 1997 to 2009 when we moved our account elsewhere.
They upgraded our accounts over the years, we never requested them, they did say if we wanted a good rate loan then its best to upgrade, so it was upgraded all the way up to the Premier account. We've had them all.

Our adjudicator is currently looking at the information of the preferential rates and the calculations, and I understand this could put a damper on the original decision made, but the point here is the accounts were forever being upgraded without us having a say so and we had separate cover and cheaper elsewhere, with home insurance etc, and never once been abroad, and never will, so european travel is/was no good to us.

I can now see that ID theft is automatic anyway, cover or no cover as long as not being negligent.
We have a number of pre-med conditions, we not always had a mobile phone, just in recent years.

The only benefit would have been breakdown.

It appears that they go by the fact that even if you did not need or use them, you may still have been eligible. Going by some researching.

My adjudicator did say by email we are welcome to forward any further info to support out case, but am really not sure how to get around this one, of the preferential rates, despite our reason.:tinysmile_hmm_t2:

Any help on this will be great thank you.

(I did apply to my thread about this a few weeks back) but not received a reply as yet, so hope you dont mind me posting here folks lol thanks in advance!

I am more on the PPI end, and am learning on this one as I go along. Cheers.

[leclerc]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

It depends, if the one single benefit would cost you less by upgrading your account.

Eg. If you were paying £110 for AA breakdown cover but with upgrading your account it only cost £5 per month costing only £60 a year. Saving £50
That is nonsense. The bank does not offer the same coverage as the £110.00 coverage you were paying. Most banks offer the basic roadside assistance and claim it costs £60.00 when it does not. You can price match on that and cut the cost in half therefore losing money on it. We need specific examples so here we go: http://www.lloydstsb.com/current_accounts/added_value_accounts/aa_breakdown_cover2.asp
It's clear they are talking about roadside recovery which for me cost me £36.00 price matched this year. That means based on their basic cost I make a loss on a packaged account.

One size does not fit all. May I reiterate that these accounts do have real benefits for some BUT not for others
I agree with you that the packaged accounts that are on offer COULD benefit SOME customers but they are sold to many people who are ill informed misadvised and until only 4 days ago, the bank had no obligation to care if they were selling an account that was fit for purpose for that person.

It is important for us to make adult and educated decisions about our finances and not get fooled into sales talk. As a parent I am training my children in financial matters as I don't believe the schools go far enough in preparing them for the 'real' world. What I am teaching them is from my own personal experience and I have had my fair share of knocks!

Ruby, what I am showing is perhaps similar a person who was a smoker but is a non smoker. I worked in the bank and we missold you granny to be blunt and when people challenged the packaged account we either conned them into keeping it, threatened them with things that were untrue or simply did not care.
I am 100% anti packaged account and I will always be that way when generally the people who will claim missold the account will be able to prove by showing that the bank sold them it by misleading them, sold it to them despite the evidence that they have that they did not need it or simply they exploited their customers for personal and branch gain......bonus culture personified.

[Ruby]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

It depends, if the one single benefit would cost you less by upgrading your account.

Eg. If you were paying £110 for AA breakdown cover but with upgrading your account it only cost £5 per month costing only £60 a year. Saving £50.

One size does not fit all. May I reiterate that these accounts do have real benefits for some BUT not for others.

It is important for us to make adult and educated decisions about our finances and not get fooled into sales talk. As a parent I am training my children in financial matters as I don't believe the schools go far enough in preparing them for the 'real' world. What I am teaching them is from my own personal experience and I have had my fair share of knocks!

[leclerc]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

If you had no need for the product then you should not have been sold it. Clear and simple.

Sorry to be blunt but this goes far beyond selling packaged accounts.

I totally agree with you but they were sold on the basis that one single benefit meant that the package was worth it. It was in terms of branch performance and in terms of personal performance of the seller.

[Ruby]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Examples of what I mean are:- Mis selling of PPI, mis selling of mortgage products, I can go on and on and on .......

I do agree with you that you should not have been automatically upgraded to a fee paying account. I do think that practice has changed now. Much the same as you don't automatically get credit increases on your credit card these days unless you ask. There is no doubt the financial industry has become more cautious these days. They have been bitten with all the fines they have received for mis selling products. I am also fairly certain that the era of banks being fined is not over yet either.

[FlySi]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

If you had no need for the product then you should not have been sold it. Clear and simple.

As I recall Lloyds offered an account to people between the ages of 12 and 18 at that time. When I turned 18 the account was upgraded automatically. This would date it to 1998 (a year after Lloyds introduced packaged accounts). Therefore the idea of whether or not I should have been offered it in the first place is moot: it was done automatically and therefore played no part in the decision.

Sorry to be blunt but this goes far beyond selling packaged accounts.

I'm curious - what do you mean by this statement?

[Ruby]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

If you had no need for the product then you should not have been sold it. Clear and simple.

Sorry to be blunt but this goes far beyond selling packaged accounts.

[FlySi]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Although I came here asking for help I'm able to offer just as much in return! If you have the time, patience and inclination you might want to try the Wayback Machine: Internet Archive. It has a cache of websites dating back to the birth of world wide web. I've just had a look at the Lloyds TSB website from 2000 and it makes for interesting reading. On 18th October 2000:

• The Classic account was free
• The Select account was £4 a month and included a Home Shopping Service, commission-free traveller's cheques, Green Flag Roadside Assistance and £500 off a new car
• The Gold account included much the same, including travel insurance, medical insurance when travelling (which any self-respecting travel insurance would include anyway)

Hope this site offers some help to everybody...! The address is http://web.archive.org/

[FlySi]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Another article from the Telegraph regarding the introduction of Platinum account at Lloyds

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/p...-platinum.html

Dated March 2001