Packaged Account Fees

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Right ok just had an email back, please let me know what you think......

Dear Mr and Mrs

Thank you for your email.

Lloyds has informed me that you took out two gold service loans in January and November 2001. It has been unable to provide me with details of the preferential rate you received or of the rate you would have received had you not held a gold service account. It is unable to do this as you took out the loans over 10 years ago.

I had to form my opinion based on what I consider most likely in the circumstances. Given the evidence both you and Lloyds have provided, it is clear you benefitted from some preferential rate on your loans through having this account. As you took out the first gold service loan at around the same time your account was upgraded, I think it is reasonable to assume this is why you agreed to upgrade. As you have stated that you took out other loans during that period, I think it is also reasonable to conclude that the benefit you received outweighed the cost of the account – as is clearly the case for the subsequent upgrades.

I understand it must be frustrating as due to the passage of time there is limited information from the initial upgrade. However I would like to assure you that I have considered all the information provided by both parties. I have formed my opinion on what I consider most likely to have happened given the circumstances and the evidence provided. You are welcome to provide me with further information relating to the loans – however if my view remains unchanged you can request that your complaint is passed to an ombudsman for a final decision.

Yours sincerely

Adjudicator

In regards of her email as just posted above, I have all details of ALL loans, I note she said Lloyds could not go back that far.

What I do have is a list I received within a SAR via loans from then 90's to 2007, she seems to think that I would have benefitted, so how can I prove otherwise.

Going by a post above by another member who posted on here about 2 weeks ago said it was unlikely as such, so I take it I'm to find the agreements??

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Right ok just had an email back, please let me know what you think......

Dear Mr and Mrs

Thank you for your email.

Lloyds has informed me that you took out two gold service loans in January and November 2001. It has been unable to provide me with details of the preferential rate you received or of the rate you would have received had you not held a gold service account. It is unable to do this as you took out the loans over 10 years ago.

I had to form my opinion based on what I consider most likely in the circumstances. Given the evidence both you and Lloyds have provided, it is clear you benefitted from some preferential rate on your loans through having this account. As you took out the first gold service loan at around the same time your account was upgraded, I think it is reasonable to assume this is why you agreed to upgrade. As you have stated that you took out other loans during that period, I think it is also reasonable to conclude that the benefit you received outweighed the cost of the account – as is clearly the case for the subsequent upgrades.

I understand it must be frustrating as due to the passage of time there is limited information from the initial upgrade. However I would like to assure you that I have considered all the information provided by both parties. I have formed my opinion on what I consider most likely to have happened given the circumstances and the evidence provided. You are welcome to provide me with further information relating to the loans – however if my view remains unchanged you can request that your complaint is passed to an ombudsman for a final decision.

Yours sincerely

Adjudicator

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Thanks agan for your help EXC your a star!

I just emailed now and mentioned that and of other loans that were not mentioned under the packaged accounts, I said I require the info and need to know in order to continue with sending further info.

I also raised the matter that originally in August after going through our evidence with her senior colleague it was suggested they uphold (I take it a Senior is obviously someone above her) who helped come to the opinion of then upholding it on the basis that we did not know we could have a fee free account.
(I kept the email as proof to say she was waiting for a senior colleague to go through our evidence back in August).

[EXC]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Yes I think you need to impress on the adjudicator that the issue is did you actually benefit overall by having the paid for accounts and not whether would have done in theory.

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Thank you EXC

Yes I know!

The adjudicator did say that Lloyds did get back about 2 gold service loans, where we would have benefitted but I am going to ask for proof of what they did send.

There was no mention of the loans when he plantinum and premier account were upgraded, so I think I should send them the list I had from the SAR.

[EXC]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I heard and its not good!!

Adjudicator now decided not to uphold and go by the preferential rates!!

Hold on, it was only 8 days ago that they e-mailed you to say they were going to get back to Lloyds for the information on preferential rates. I can't believe that they did this, Lloyds located the information and responded with it and then the adjudicator made his decision all within 5 or 6 working days.

I'd get back to him and question him on this.

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I heard and its not good!!

Adjudicator now decided not to uphold and go by the preferential rates!!

I need to get back as soon as poss in order for them to look into or move on to the ombudsman.

How can the adjudicator decide to uphold at first in August as she was persuaded that having reviewed our evidence she recommended that it should be upheld, as we we were under the impression that we had to pay for all lloyds tsb bank account.
And now she is saying the opposite.

I have kept all emails, any ideas please folks, this is my last chance?

Thank you.

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I should hopefully hear of the Adjudicators opinion by the end of this week! :-/

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I think the bank then could literally say that about all customers benefitting from discount rates (on customers who have complained), despite the fact if the products been mis sold or not, or that not ALL products were needed etc......

They just want to stall, if this was the case then why is it only NOW months down the line they say this and nothing mentioned on the rejection letter from the bank when I complained....

Also reading up on some from the FOS website...
http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.u...-accounts.html

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

LOL thanks EXC.

I cannot remember if we did not or not though, but as Curiousred says above, they never do. Wonder if this will have the bank stumped? lol

[EXC]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Nice one.

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

I said to the adjudicator about the loans, if Lloyds could prove any discount rate etc in regards of the loans, and the adjudicator got back and said........

Dear Mr and Mrs

Thank you for your email.

Packaged accounts often provide a preferential interest rates on loan repayments. Therefore I will also need to assess how much you benefitted from this aspect of the packaged account. I will be able to ask Lloyds to provide any information relating to this.

I hope this answers all your questions.

Yours sincerely


Adjudicator
Financial Ombudsman Service

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Hello Di

I think you may be over thinking this. As I understand your case, the FOS have upheld the complaint that you were mis-sold the PBA. The bank are now attempting to knock off the overdraft "savings" from the settlement figure. I'm not sure entering a fact finding death spiral with the bank is the way forward.

The point is you were overdrawn as a consequence of having to pay for your mis-sold PBA. For example, think of someone who has paid £150 a year for a PBA for 5 years but carried a £500 overdraft throughout. If they had not forked out the £750 for the PBA, they'd have been £250 in credit instead.

Therefore, your claim should be for the following:

1. The costs of the PBA.
2. The interest and fees for being overdrawn to pay for the PBA.
3. The loss of credit balance interest (if your account pays interest when in the black).
4. Statutory interest at 8%.

If you had a personal loan during the period and the bank says you received a discount as a consequence of the PBA, ask them to prove that the discount was greater than the branch manager's discretionary discount powers. It never is.

By the way, I'm just sending my claim to the FOS. How long has the FOS taken to get this far for you? ie: when did you send it to the FOS?

Good luck.

Thank you for all your fantastic advice/info

Yes it makes sense what you say and yep we did have a loan at that time too.

Number 2: we paid more than just the £25 for the monthly charge (premier) as other charges applied on top as well, excessive charges/interest etc, so it worked out we were paying approx £94 a month for the account (is that what you mean) lol. (PPI is my thing, certainly not this type though) lol.

It was roughly Oct/Nov last year we first made the complaint to the FOS and this been ongoing with the adjudicator for a few months now (lloyds always requesting for extra time) etc.

I wish you luck with yours, fingers crossed.

[Curiousred]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Hello Di

I think you may be over thinking this. As I understand your case, the FOS have upheld the complaint that you were mis-sold the PBA. The bank are now attempting to knock off the overdraft "savings" from the settlement figure. I'm not sure entering a fact finding death spiral with the bank is the way forward.

The point is you were overdrawn as a consequence of having to pay for your mis-sold PBA. For example, think of someone who has paid £150 a year for a PBA for 5 years but carried a £500 overdraft throughout. If they had not forked out the £750 for the PBA, they'd have been £250 in credit instead.

Therefore, your claim should be for the following:

1. The costs of the PBA.
2. The interest and fees for being overdrawn to pay for the PBA.
3. The loss of credit balance interest (if your account pays interest when in the black).
4. Statutory interest at 8%.

If you had a personal loan during the period and the bank says you received a discount as a consequence of the PBA, ask them to prove that the discount was greater than the branch manager's discretionary discount powers. It never is.

By the way, I'm just sending my claim to the FOS. How long has the FOS taken to get this far for you? ie: when did you send it to the FOS?

Good luck.

[di30]

Re: Packaged Account Fees

Now in 2007 when the bank upgraded our account, we previously fell into difficulties due to job losses etc,. and were already in the platinum overdraft, there was still so much overdraft left available when they upgraded us to Premier.
Now sure as they were aware of this, should the bank have upgraded us?

How was we to benefit on what they say the Preferential O/D rate if we never left so much in the account each month?? it finally went to collections then the account closed where at first the interest was still growing, until again we complained to the FOS where it was resolved by them - by them recommended the bank to freeze the account.

Surely if there was an outstanding overdraft, would being sold an upgrade package account have been beneficial, as we never used any of the benefits either?

What do you think?

Thanks again.