abbeys reply

[dizzyking]

I have had a letter from Abbey concerning a copy of the agreement, they have sent a copy of an agreement with name and address, it has been signed my myself, but not signed by Abbey.
There are no terms and conditions with it, but on a seperate piece of paper they have sent the terms and conditions.

My main concern is the letter they have sent, where they state "under the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 we can comply with the legal requirements by sending you a copy of an agreement in the same form as the one that you signed, but may exclude the signature box, customer signature and the date of the signature"

What does this mean, I thought they would have had to send the agreement signed by both creditor and debtor.

any help would be appreciated

[barloo69]

Re: abbeys reply

I have been reading up on this line of attack play a lot over the last few months and from what I can gather, they have sent you a complete load of tosh and it is non compliant and you have grounds to proceed to the next stage as they havent complied with the CCA.

Im sure one of the resident LB will come along and give further advise shortly for I am just a mere pupply like yourself.

Good luck.

[debtisbad]

Re: abbeys reply

I have had a letter from Abbey concerning a copy of the agreement, they have sent a copy of an agreement with name and address, it has been signed my myself, but not signed by Abbey.
There are no terms and conditions with it, but on a seperate piece of paper they have sent the terms and conditions.

My main concern is the letter they have sent, where they state "under the consumer credit (cancellation notices and copies of documents) regulations 1983 we can comply with the legal requirements by sending you a copy of an agreement in the same form as the one that you signed, but may exclude the signature box, customer signature and the date of the signature"

What does this mean, I thought they would have had to send the agreement signed by both creditor and debtor.

any help would be appreciated

Abbey have got themselves into a mess with CCAs. In my own case my Abbey credit card was passed to Lowells, a collections agency, who tried to chase me for 10 500 pounds-you can search for my threads on here. As it happens, I eventually asked for a true copy of the CCA, as indeed you did, and they responded by saying that records were not kept that far back.

Accordingly, they had to write the debt off.

It would appear that from your thread they are now doing a "plan B" which is to try and fob you off with the sort of cobbled together sort of agreement that they have sent you.

What they have sent you is certainly not a true copy of the original CCA.

Just because they claim that they have complied with the law does not mean that they have. Any idiot can claim that they have complied with the law and send a dodgy CCA. I can produce one on my computer within the next few minutes!

The reality f it is that they have Fu**** up (ori nsert word of your choice) but rather than come clean and admit it, they are trying to lie to you and get your money.

Do not stand for this juvenile behaviour. No CCA menas no agreement means no collection.

I used various standard template letters to dispute my account prior to it being written off.

May I suggest that you do the same, don't take this rubbbish from them.

Use this template and tweak it where necessary for your own circumstances:

Account In Dispute

Dear Sir/Madam

Re: my request under s78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me dated **DATE**, the contents of which are noted. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter, dated **DATE**. Upon receipt of the original request the specified account legally entered into disputed status.

My request remains outstanding. The supplied documentation does not constitute a true copy of a credit agreement and that which you sent doesn't even contain all the prescribed terms and is not 'properly executed'. The statements sent do not correspond to the amount stated in your earliest correspondence and therefore they do not satisfy the requirement to supply me with a statement of account.

As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

You had until **12 days DATE** to provide me with the true copy I requested. After that date you entered into default of my request. Whilst the account is in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agencies (or any third party).

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the data subject to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office.

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. . You entered into a default on **12 Days DATE**

Therefore you have 7 days from receiving this letter to contact me with your intentions to resolve this matter which is now a formal complaint, otherwise your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to hold a consumer credit license in the future.

Take further note that continued telephone calls after the receipt of a request not to call may constitute a criminal offence under Section 127 of the Communications Act 2003.

Communicate in writing and ONLY in writing, your telephone calls will NOT be answered.

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.


I would appreciate your due diligence in this matter.

I look forward to your reply.

Yours faithfully

[Amethyst]

Re: abbeys reply

They will more than likely come back at you quoting the CAREY v HSBC which you should probably have a read of - CAREY v HSBC - CCA Judgments 23rd Dec - re recreated docs - Legal Beagles

[debtisbad]

Re: abbeys reply

They will more than likely come back at you quoting the CAREY v HSBC which you should probably have a read of - CAREY v HSBC - CCA Judgments 23rd Dec - re recreated docs - Legal Beagles

Hi Amethyst

I am jot exactly sure that I understand this. They wrote to me closing the account and did not go down the route that you mention. Why could that be?
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Hi Amethyst

I am jot exactly sure that I understand this. They wrote to me closing the account and did not go down the route that you mention. Why could that be?

Or maybe because my debt was written off before this date?

[Amethyst]

Re: abbeys reply

Yip that'll be it This was from the Manchester test cases end of December 09.

[Ruby]

Re: abbeys reply

For those of us who have still got disputes with their CCA's, would it be at all possible to illustrate in simple English how to progress with our claims since the latest judgements. I hope I'm not the only one who is confused as how to progess from here on in. I'm assuming CB's template letters are now out of date?

From my understanding companies can reconsitute CCA agreements as long as they have the persons name and address on them?

The T & C's do not have to be part of the document?

What about the signature part of it?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am really confused.

[debtisbad]

Re: abbeys reply

For those of us who have still got disputes with their CCA's, would it be at all possible to illustrate in simple English how to progress with our claims since the latest judgements. I hope I'm not the only one who is confused as how to progess from here on in. I'm assuming CB's template letters are now out of date?

From my understanding companies can reconsitute CCA agreements as long as they have the persons name and address on them?

The T & C's do not have to be part of the document?

What about the signature part of it?

Sorry for all the questions, but I am really confused.

Agreed, further explanation is needed. Obviously, the way that I won my case is now outdated, so apologies for incorrect advice, but thanks to Amethyst for pointing out changes resulting from the test case.