New Terms and conditions

[jet_black]

Has anyone else been sent the new t's & c's, I'll scan them tomorrow, they make for interesting reading when it comes to what they call an "instant overdraft" It looks like a crass attempt to confuse people

[Celestine]

I haven't seen them yet, if you could scan them that would be great.

[jet_black]

they are actually quite worrying, instead of an unauthorised overdraft they state:
".....you may also request an overdraft by trying to make a payment from your current account, where that payment would:
(i) cause your current account to go overdrawn without an Advance Overdraft in place; or
(ii) cause your current account to go over any Advance Overdraft limit we have previously agreed with you.

In either case this is refered to as an instant overdraft request.


I was under the impression that an overdraft is credit which has to be formally agreed to by both parties. They are changing the charges also. I'll scan them all up fo you to look at.

[Guest]

The very fact that they are doing this demonstrates that they know full well that these charges, at least to date, have been penalties.

Attempting to cloak their penalty charges as fees for a service is not going to work - even the OFT will see through that, given that in their April 2006 report they specifically warned banks against the practice of disguising penalties as services.

Thanks Jet, look forward to seeing the terms when you upload them.

[Amethyst]

All banks are heading the same way with these T&C's now. Abbey seem to be quite slow at changing - was it HSBC that first came up with the unarranged / arranged overdraft fee ?

The OFT will see through it - but whether they will allow the banks to say this is what they should have been called all along, and the previous terms were for clarity to their customers, remains to be seen.

I think the disguised penalty clauses should be incorporated into the POC's for claims including any of this 'new' terminology.

[Nattie]

I think the beginnings of this all was way back last year and I think all banks are responding to their long break from it all via the OFT test case by making the charges seem to be somehow a service. We have seen the softening of names for charges. It is not a REFERRAL charge or UNARRANGED overdraft but maintenance fee and informal requests for overdrafts, or formal requests if the account goes overdrawn. Odd that.

[Mochamoos]

New TC are scary! I am now closing my account cant deal with the T&C very very scary

[Amethyst]

Yes they are quite scary. The Current Account T&C's differ from the Personal Banking T&C's. I received the Personal Banking ones yesterday and they clearly state'if you overdraw your account when we have not given you an overdraft you are in breach of these conditions...'

The new Tariff of Charges for the current account is nicely called 'Key Features and Price List'.

I can put some pics up of them but not sure how readable they will be.

Do we really think they will win with this changing to describing the same fee as a service rather than a penalty ? I'm in two minds all seems rather orchestrated.

[Amethyst]

see if these work or not.

[iancognito]

Depends on whether the case hinges on whether Unauthorised Overdraft Charges (remember that phrase) are currently unlawful or whether the whole hisotry is looked at.

The case is not about Key Features, Price Lists or Account Service Fees, it is about Unauthorised Overdraft Charges

[Amethyst]

not great but vageuly readable if someone fancies scanning in some sensible images that'd be good lol (and one of furby just cause i felt like it) sorry did pics with webcam hence the bendy pages.


the pic with the biro round the text is from the Personal Banking T&C's received yesterday - the rest are the Current account T&c's received today.

[skeggs885]

skeggsy v lloyds buss account

All banks are heading the same way with these T&C's now. Abbey seem to be quite slow at changing - was it HSBC that first came up with the unarranged / arranged overdraft fee ?

The OFT will see through it - but whether they will allow the banks to say this is what they should have been called all along, and the previous terms were for clarity to their customers, remains to be seen.

I think the disguised penalty clauses should be incorporated into the POC's for claims including any of this 'new' terminology.

definately, do we have a business account poc in light of the above for lloyds tsb yet. skeggsy

[Amethyst]

we're working on business pocs right now hun. keep hassling us tho.

[jet_black]

sorry it took a bit longer than I said, I got side tracked with the kids.

[Amethyst]

fabulous jet - can take my poor attempts down now

Thank you

might leave furby tho