AL59 Natwest Claim

[Al59]

Hi all,
I have just got in to our 1st port,rang home last night my wife said there was a 4 page letter from Cobbetts, saying my claim was wrong ect and how they want a court meeting ect full of legal jargon that frightened my wife to bits.She seems to think I have done it wrong? Cant tell you anymore till I get home on tuesday.I dont use the internet on this ship much as they charge a fortune
Al.

[Tempty]

don't worry too much... easier said then done I know
will proably turn out to be one of those standard bulls**t letter coblers like to send out to scare you off.
when ya get home scan it in and we'll have a look at it for you

[Nattie]

standard Cobbetts Defence to me. Full of Congreted Requirements And Punitive commonly called C.R.A.P.

[Al59]

Thanks you two nice ladies if I scan this letter in what format do I save it?I made the mistake once of scanning my music and let the pc save it,it was saved as a photograph when I tried to put it all on disc it was to large.Also how do I get it to you all?
Al

[enaid]

I can't help with the scanning A159, but just to let you know Nattie is a male, I know, don't ask!, but you really need him on your side lol.

[Tempty]

Hi Al
ok first of all, really don't worry!! this can all wait till tuesday when you get home. There really is no rush! if there's anything wrong the court will let you know.......it's down to them now...NOT cobbetts.

We may not even need you to scan the whole thing in, when you get home take a look at what they sent you and tell what heading it comes under. Ie if it say's "DEFFENCE" or "NOTICE OF REQUEST FOR INFORMATION" etc. We will be able to tell what you've got from the heading they've put it under. I can't remember the exact proccess of scanning something in off the top of my head right now, but if we need you to do it, I'll look it up and talk you through it step by step.

Honestly though, put it out of your mind, concentrate on the job at hand.... there really is no rush.
I promise you....trust us..... we won't guide you wrong.
Take care
Tempty xx

[iancognito]

Al

You can only upload files of type bmp doc gif jpe jpeg jpg pdf png psd rtf txt xls zip
Your scanning software probably saves them as TIFF files by default.

If you save it as a jpeg or bmp file, then use the manage attachments button underneath the reply box (doesn't show if you use quick reply) and if needs be we can convert it to a .pdf which is a smaller file format.

[Al59]

Home Tue to Cobbetts letter

Well here it is guys I will print it as seen

DEFENCE

1 This defence is filed without prejudice to the Defendant's case that the Particulars of claim do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the Defendant to recover the bank charges(and interest thereon) referred to in the Particulars of claim or any other sum(s).In the event that the claim is not properly particularised then the Defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/or for summary judgement in respect of the same.

2 On allocation the Defendant invites the court to direct that there be a case management conference in order for the court to consider the making of appropiate orders to give the Claimant the opportunity to properly particularise the claim.

3 No admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the Claimants bank account.

4 The Claimant is put to strict proof of each and every charge the subject of the claim and must identify in respect of each charge (a) the date the same was debited, (b) the ammount of the same and (c) the description applied to the charge.

5 I relation to the allegation that the bank charges amount to an unenforceable penalty the Defendant pleads as follows:

5.1 I order for the claimant to sustain a claim that the charges debited by the Defendant are in the nature of a penalty the claimant will need to prove (a) the clause(s) pursuant to which the charges were applied; (b) that the charges were applied due to breach of contract by the Claimant; and (c) identifying in each case the particular breach of contract ( by referece to appropriate term(s) of the contract) that the charge is related to. As presently pleaded the claim does not plead these matters and therefore does not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim that all or any of the charges referred to in particulars of claim have been applied pursuant to an unenforceable penalty clause.

5.2 Until such time as the Claimant pleads the matters referred to in paragraph 5.1 above the Defendant is unable to plead to the claim brought against it and therefore 9pending the provision of full and proper particulars of claim) at this stage denies that any charges have been applied to the Claimants bank account pursuant to unenforceable penalty clauses.

6 In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are invalid pusuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (The Regulations).

6.1 The Claimant is required to identify the contractual provision(s) that the claimant alleges are invalid by reference to the Regulations. Until such time as these provisions are identified the Defendant cannot (save as appears below). The Defendant therefore reserves the right to plead furthr to the allegation once (and if ) the Claimant identifies the relevent contractual provisions.

6.2 In relation to the case of Claimant that the contractual provisions are invalid pursuant to the Regulations the Defendant pleads as folows:

6.2.1 Schedule 2 to the Regulations is an indicative and non exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair ( emphasis supplied)

6.2.2 If the Claimant is to rely upon paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 to the Regulations then the Claimant is required to plead and prove in relation to each bank charge that is sought the matters referred to in paragraph 6.1 above and all facts and matters relied upon in alleging that the sums paid are disproportionately high.

6.2.3 In the circumstances no grounds are disclosed for a claim that the contractual provisions (whatever they are alleged to be-see paragraph 6.1 above) falls foul of the Regulations and in particular paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2

6.2.4 The Defendant is therefore unable(save as appears below) to plead to this allegation beyond denying yhat any bank charges have ben applied pursuant to the terms which contravene the Regulations. The Defendant reserves the right to plead furthe to this allegation once ( and if ) the particulars referred to in paragraph 6.2.2 above are provided.

6.2.5 Without predjudice to paragraph 6.2.4 It is the case of the Defendent thet the Regulations have no application because the charges ammount to payment for services provided by the Defendant and the adequacy ( or otherwise ) of consideration paid under a contract for services is not an issue to be judged by reference to principles of fairness under the Regulations.

7 Sav as hereinafter apears the Defendant joins issue with the Claimant on the claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the Claimant as alleged or all.

Then Statement of the truth.

When I put my claim in for this account I asked for 6yrs statements they sent me four years I again asked they sent me an extra month I again asked, in which time the 40 days passed I complained to ICO received a letter back saying Natwest had breaced DPA and they would write to them they then sent me 4 years statements again and I have still not received the rest of the statements. The first DPA request was sent 28/2/07. I filed with what information I had and told the court I had estimated the rest of the charges. I have only got two days home and I hav'nt even looked at the other offer letter from Nastywest for the other account.Got to go to bed now been travelling from Dover since 11am. Cheers guys

[Celestine]

Hi
Ive merged your 2 threads on your Natwest claim. makes it easier to follow.

Ive also renamed it, let me know if you prefer a different title.

[Al59]

Thank you Celestine I leave it to the Pros

[Amethyst]

Hi Al hun,,,, reading through your defence now

[Amethyst]

DEFENCE

1 This defence is filed without prejudice to the Defendant's case that the Particulars of claim do not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim against the Defendant to recover the bank charges(and interest thereon) referred to in the Particulars of claim or any other sum(s).In the event that the claim is not properly particularised then the Defendant will apply to strike out the claim and/or for summary judgement in respect of the same.

FIRST THEN - Did you file by MCOL or N1 - either way I think we should amend the claim and get fuller particulars in. It is quite standard for them to file this kind of defence - its more an atempt to scare you rather than be based on any legal footing. But we play the game...and I think wait till after directions before doing anything as the judge may well ignore their ramblings.



2 On allocation the Defendant invites the court to direct that there be a case management conference in order for the court to consider the making of appropiate orders to give the Claimant the opportunity to properly particularise the claim.

Dont worry about this at all.

3 No admissions are made as to what charges have been debited to the Claimants bank account.

4 The Claimant is put to strict proof of each and every charge the subject of the claim and must identify in respect of each charge (a) the date the same was debited, (b) the ammount of the same and (c) the description applied to the charge.

This is standard and just means you need to submit your schedule of charges - am quite happy for you to stick with the estimated part of your claim. Maybe consider adding an element re the DPA in the new POC.


5 I relation to the allegation that the bank charges amount to an unenforceable penalty the Defendant pleads as follows:

5.1 I order for the claimant to sustain a claim that the charges debited by the Defendant are in the nature of a penalty the claimant will need to prove (a) the clause(s) pursuant to which the charges were applied; (b) that the charges were applied due to breach of contract by the Claimant; and (c) identifying in each case the particular breach of contract ( by referece to appropriate term(s) of the contract) that the charge is related to. As presently pleaded the claim does not plead these matters and therefore does not disclose reasonable grounds for bringing a claim that all or any of the charges referred to in particulars of claim have been applied pursuant to an unenforceable penalty clause.

Terms and Conditions of ur account - when was it opened we'll see if we have these on file and we will add the relevant part into the POC.

5.2 Until such time as the Claimant pleads the matters referred to in paragraph 5.1 above the Defendant is unable to plead to the claim brought against it and therefore 9pending the provision of full and proper particulars of claim) at this stage denies that any charges have been applied to the Claimants bank account pursuant to unenforceable penalty clauses.

6 In relation to the allegation that the contractual provisions pursuant to which the charges have been applied are invalid pusuant to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (The Regulations).

6.1 The Claimant is required to identify the contractual provision(s) that the claimant alleges are invalid by reference to the Regulations. Until such time as these provisions are identified the Defendant cannot (save as appears below). The Defendant therefore reserves the right to plead furthr to the allegation once (and if ) the Claimant identifies the relevent contractual provisions.

6.2 In relation to the case of Claimant that the contractual provisions are invalid pursuant to the Regulations the Defendant pleads as folows:

6.2.1 Schedule 2 to the Regulations is an indicative and non exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair ( emphasis supplied)

6.2.2 If the Claimant is to rely upon paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 to the Regulations then the Claimant is required to plead and prove in relation to each bank charge that is sought the matters referred to in paragraph 6.1 above and all facts and matters relied upon in alleging that the sums paid are disproportionately high.

6.2.3 In the circumstances no grounds are disclosed for a claim that the contractual provisions (whatever they are alleged to be-see paragraph 6.1 above) falls foul of the Regulations and in particular paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2

6.2.4 The Defendant is therefore unable(save as appears below) to plead to this allegation beyond denying yhat any bank charges have ben applied pursuant to the terms which contravene the Regulations. The Defendant reserves the right to plead furthe to this allegation once ( and if ) the particulars referred to in paragraph 6.2.2 above are provided.

6.2.5 Without predjudice to paragraph 6.2.4 It is the case of the Defendent thet the Regulations have no application because the charges ammount to payment for services provided by the Defendant and the adequacy ( or otherwise ) of consideration paid under a contract for services is not an issue to be judged by reference to principles of fairness under the Regulations.

7 Sav as hereinafter apears the Defendant joins issue with the Claimant on the claim(s) and denies that it is liable to the Claimant as alleged or all.

Then Statement of the truth.



So dont worry - I'm going to have a chat with someone and come back to you later. It all seems quite standard and all arguments can be countered - because when it comes down to it we are correct in law we just need to put it across right.

[Al59]

Thanks Ame,makes me feel a lot easier,I moved to this Branch of Nastywest about eight and a half years ago before that I was in another branch for fifteen years. Re the schedule of charges everyone was itemised date ,what charge was for cost ect. Also I filed in person at my local County court I have put the other mail under the other Natwest posts.Once again thanksx

[Amethyst]

Hey Al... Mad Hatters claim went down a similar route to ours and he has kindly posted the response he made to this defence on his thread http://www.legal-beagles.co.uk/forum...ed.html#post80
link should go straight to his defence reply

Have a read then ask any questions

Hope that helps you out a bit more hun xxx Good luck

[Al59]

Thanks Ame will do, If you get a chance have a look at the other threads,the offer I had for my joint account charges and the settled judgement thread I have sent two letters off re these threads