Natwest v Balloony

[balloony]

Hi,
first time to use - thanks for your patience.

NatWest claim against us - 10k+ (resulting from them rejecting our offers to repay closed down loan in affordable installments - like others on this thread they demanded a lump sum or nothing on closing our account).

Our claim against NatWest - 8k+ interest and deductions ( stay lifted Oct 08 and judge linked 2 claims i.e. with above, together).

Great news for us but I'm now nervous that the statement I provide to the Court, Cobbets (us as claimants), and Shoosmiths(us as defendents later) will
be professional enough to prompt a settlement out of court that the judge has urged both parties to achieve.

I've read the checklists, am supplying all supporting documents and statements etc as before. However unsure how to weave in latest developments in test case progress to our argument. Should I leave well alone or make reference to these? What is meant by 'deductions' separate to charges that the judge has allowed us to include? What other supporting documents would help?

I am required to submit this statement by next Wed - any pointers gratefully received. Many thanks in advance.

[Amethyst]

Re: balloony

hi Balloony and welcome to the site

Just to clarify - the claim you have in the system against Natwest does that include charges from on the loan ? and does their claim against you include anything from your current account or is it simply your loan account ?

Also did you submit a defence submission after receiving the claim or is this what we are talking about submitting now ?

Ta - just a little clarification needed (dates/timeline would probably be helpful) then am sure we will be able to help you draft something up to help you repay by installment (also have you looked at the claim hardship angle with the bank direct?)

Ame
xx

[balloony]

Re: balloony

WOW what a quick response - extremely grateful for your help.

In brief, the judge at the hearing we attended 2 weeks ago(NatWest sent a legal secretary) where they were claimants to our loan account lump sum repayment, accepted it was a joint account and it was therefore applicable to both of us i.e. they only called me

He therefore accepted our defence that the pleadings be amended to show us both as joint claimants in respect of both cases ( our charges claim against them had previously only been in my husband's name) and that we had a counterclaim already in place that had been stayed.

It was in the records that we had tried and failed to get this lifted on hardship grounds for which we felt we more than qualified on several criteria , including court being at liberty to restore possession order on our house, loss of income and inability to repay their loan, on benefits etc that we showed evidence of. The banks ignored all this , disagreed and then went on to close our accounts despite code etc

so to clarify :

our claim against Natwest on charges to our joint current account only

their claim against us on loan,current and savings combined , nothing in latter!

We made it clear though in previous statements that we took out the loan to keep up with compound debt from snowballed charges.



It now stands that we must file and serve a statement to both solicitors and court by next wed.

I'm murky though with this turn of events i.e. lifted stay, consolidated claims etc what to put in and what to leave out at this stage - your help would be invaluable. Thanks

[Amethyst]

Re: balloony

Right - so you are back to entering defence/counterclaim as the claim has been 'reissued' to joint defendants, so basically starting over from scratch ?

Did you put the claim in for charges on the current account before they defaulted and claimed against you ?

also your request to lift the stay under hardship grounds - was that a formal court application or through the bank direct ?

do you have copies of the letters asking for lower repayments on the loan - are you under any DMP (eg cccs)., and I assume you have paperwork re the suspended possession order etc.

I think you have a good case to get this all put on hold, probably with a repayment plan on the loan for the moment - can try asking for only the excess owing on the loan vs the charge claim to be judged on for the moment if we can't get whole thing stayed, and possibly (although I will speak to someone) switch your stayed claim to be the counterclaim for this case - unless the court has already accepted that claim is your counterclaim ?

You have an order to have your defence in for next Wednesday ?

Also my email is Amethyst@legalbeagles.info if you have any documents you can scan in rather than type out that would be useful (original stay lift application/court orders/POC's etc) cross personal details (addy/phone/ac no's) first tho. and a full list of your debts/arrears and a full income/expenditure (as I assume you used for your stay lift app too) would be helpful. Sorry that seems like a lot best to start with all the info

Sounds like you have done darn well thus far

[scoobydoo]

Re: Natwest v Balloony

Hi

Just popping in to say hello and welcome to the forum. Looks like you are getting some good help already.

Scooby

[enaid]

Re: Natwest v Balloony

Hi from me too balloony, the best of luck with your claim as well Enaid x

[balloony]

Re: Natwest v Balloony

Thank you all for your kind welcomes.

Many thanks for your analysis and encouragement Amethyst ; the first line of which makes so much more sense to me i.e. defendants using Shoosmiths for debt recovery - their case started long after ours -dates below-, wanted our defence struck out (judge didn't) because no particulars/grounds they argued. I was confused because we had filed/ hand delivered to court and served to Cobbetts all the particulars for the ORIGINAL claim, thinking they must therefore have it already.

I'm learning it doesn't work like that. I thought Shoosmiths would be guided by Natwest to Cobbetts for all particulars.
By you explaining that i am in effect starting from scratch helps me understand why we will have to write a new statement and rephotocopy supporting documents all over again, times 4 copies : Us, both solicitors and court.

To clarify (and sorry I can't scan yet for speed of info - need my teenagers to help me tonight) :

Yes , we put in claim for charges ( March 07 ) before they defaulted and claimed against us (Sept 08)

and Yes, the court has accepted our claim as a counterclaim - well I assume so from his wrapping them together. Would that be a correct interpretation?

Also yes, we went through a formal court appearance to appeal to lift stay , the bank citing test case and denying continued stay would cause hardship, as we have an interest award!! We provided tonnes of evidence inc paperwork of suspended repossession order to bank before them applying stay etc but interestingly we were never invited to fill in an income and expenditure form when we wrote to them with evidence. They didn't even respond to my letters before stay was applied or after. The first we knew that they rejected our hardship grounds was in the court paperwork i.e. they clearly didn't want any dialogue. No terms and conditions given as requested. No negotiation of reduced loan repayments etc


I'll type the critical court order ( 03 November) out manually, as you will see it tells us what to do:

Claim No =our number
Claimants = my husband and I
Defendent = NatWest
DDJ.............
Upon hearing the defendants in person and upon hearing the counsel for the defendent;

1. Our claim no. be consolidated with the banks claim no. and the stay be lifted on our claim no.
2. The pleadings be amended to show me and hubby joined as claimant in respect of our case no. and defendants in respect of banks case no. with the need to reserve.
3. Me and hubby do file and serve a statement containing :
(a) full details of the account where they are disputing any of the sums claimed;
(b)details in schedule form of the charges and deductions disputed and dates with supporting statement where available;
(c) the reasons for disputing the charges;

such statement to be completed and filed and served by 4:00 p.m. on 12 November 2008.

4. NatWest Plc do file and serve a statement in reply by 4:00p.m. on 3rd December 2008.

5. This matter be re-listed for case management conference on the first open date after 5th January 2009 with a time estimate of one hour. (see attached notice)

6. Costs reserved.

Dated 22 October 2008

attached notice of case management conference gives 21st January as date to attend


Hope this teases it all apart for you. Huge thanks.