County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Ruby - can you just confirm the actual situation with the hardship

Natwest are paying you £3700 and carrying on with the charge orders / or have they withdrawn the £3700 offer ?

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

I called NW back and they say that they have accepted my hardship claim and that a letter had gone out with an offer of £3,700 but nothing in writing yet.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Just finishing the witness statement and if ok with Ame I will email it to her unless anyone else wants it?
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Decided to post straight on here, I am not very good at putting letters together so I do appologise, just copied mainly what Amethyst did for me before and just updated it, feel free to change it:-

National Westminster Bank Plc
claimant
-AND-

Mr XXXXX
defendant

WITNESS STATEMENT

OF XXXXX

I, MR XXXXX of xxx(address) will say as follows:-

1.I am the Defendant in this case.

2.I make this Witness Statement from information and facts within my own knowledge and which I believe to be true.

3.I make this Witness Statement in relation to redetermination of a county court Judgement reference claim number XXMRXX.

4. This Judgement relates to a debt with National Westminster Bank plc for which I am jointly liable with my wife Mrs XXXX being a joint personal loan and a joint current account overdraft.

5. At the time of default - 28th March 2008 - the total owing to National Westminster Bank Plc is £2252.02 for Loan account number XXXXX, and £3819.33 for an overdraft on current account number XXXXX held with the National Westminster Bank Plc. The total debt was £6071.35. This is detailed on the attached default notices.

6. Both of these accounts were held jointly by myself, Mr XXXX and my wife Mrs XXXX.

7: On 28th March 2008 I received default notice (attached) for loan reference XXXX and overdraft reference XXXX. The accounts appear to have been passed to two separate collections agencies (solicitors) for collection.

7. On 20/06/2008 I, Mr XXX, received a claim form from Northampton Bulk Processing Centre dated 20th June 2008 for the debt detailed in paragraph 5(above) Claim number. The claim was bought by Irwin Mitchell Solicitors. Please see appendix 1a.

8. I entered an admission on 23/07/2008 for the full amount and made an offer to pay of £25.00 per calendar month.


9. With reference to claim number The District Judge sitting at Northampton county court on 23/07/2008 made the following orders

Judgement entered against the defendant on 23/07/2008 for payment of £25 pcm or £6623.29 payable forthwith.

The Defendant has been making payments of £25 pcm to the claimant.


10: On or around 15/06/2008 my wife Mrs XXXX received a claim from Northampton Bulk Processing Centre dated 13th June 2008 for the debt detailed in paragraph 5 (above) Claim number XXXX. The claim was bought by Shoosmiths Solicitors. (Appendix 2a)

11: On or around 20/6/2008 the Defendant entered an admission for the full amount.

12: The District Judge sitting at Northampton county court on 17/07/2008 made the following orders
Judgement entered against the defendant for £6536.23 payable forthwith including costs.

13. A redetermination hearing was held on 28th November 2008 for claim XXMRSXX where the District Judge sitting at XXXX county court on made an order to pay £25 per month. The Defendant has been making payments of £25 pcm to the claimant.

14: It is my contention that this claim number XXMRXX is a duplicate of claim number XXMRSXX as both relate to the same debt with National Westminster Bank Plc (detailed in paragraph 5 above) (and as such should be set aside.) ????????

15. I have an ongoing claim against the claimant for the reclaiming of bank charges totalling £4,890 + interest = £6,336.40. On the 3/6/09 I applied for reimbursement of these charges asking to be considered under the Hardship ruling. On 19/6/09 the Claimant wrote to my wife and I advising us that our claim had been accepted and that interest on our current account had been frozen and that recovery action had been suspended pending the outcome of the OFT court case and that we would be receiving an offer within the next day or two. During a phone call with the claimant on the 25/6/09, the claimant stated that they were still pursuing me and the court hearing would go ahead on the 1/7/09 whereby a final charging order may be granted on our property. On the 8/7/09 a hearing is due to be held for claim XXMRSXX whereby a charging order may be granted, this will then give the claimant a total charging orders of over £13,000 for one debt of approximately £6,500. During my phone call with the claimant on the 25/6/09 they stated that an offer letter had been sent out, with an offer of over £3,700, if accepted this would then bring the debt down to approximately £2800.

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Hi Ruby - I need to do a fair bit of work on this I will sort the kids out for school and have to do a food shop to get pack lunch to one on a choir day thing but hopefully should be back midday and will go through it then

Need to add in the order that the files should travel together and remove/edit a few bits siplify it a bit too I think. Don't worry should be able to get it sent in this afternoon .

The £3700 - are Natwest paying it directly off the debt or to you directly ? You need to keep on at them - talk to Natwest directly they are the claimants in both cases.

3700 is most of the charges isnt it. the interest etc will remain till after the test case but you will get the rest back then.

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Thanks for coming back to me, I do appreicate how busy you are and still finding time to help me!

As yet I do not have this offer in writing just told on the phone yesterday, they did say as I have priority debts that they could send some of the money to us if necessary but we would prefer to get rid of NW asap as they have been the worst so far!!

Hopefully we shall receive offer today but our post is not delivered until late afternoon. When you say keep on at NW do you mean about the offer letter?

Yes £3700 is most of the charges, I think in total they were around £4800 + interest.

xx

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

UPDATE

Received the following today:

Offer letter from NW, offering a goodwill gesture of £3,778! no mention of court case.

Letter from Shoosmiths refering to our conversation the day before yesterday, stating that "NW have told them to close the file. They have written to court vacating the Final Charging Order hearing listed for 8 July and requesting that the interim charging order be discharged. They also go on to say that they have lodged the necessary papers at the land Registry to remove the restriction registered against our property."
However, since I spoke to NW yesterday, I now know that NW have instructed Shoosmiths to reopen the file and commence legal action, so assume I will be getting a revised letter from Shoosmiths tomorrow!

Also received letters from Land Registry B136(CO) Notice of an application to register a restriction against the land lodged by Irwin Mitchell.

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Just drafting at the mo is just simpler to do it on here then anyone can stick their thoughts in as we go.....

National Westminster Bank Plc
claimant
(Irwin Mitchel Solicitors)

-AND-

Mr XXXXX
defendant

WITNESS STATEMENT

OF XXXXX

I, MR XXXXX of xxx(address) will say as follows:-

1.I am the Defendant in this case.

2.I make this Witness Statement from information and facts within my own knowledge and which I believe to be true.

3.I make this Witness Statement in relation to claim number XXMRXX. This hearing is to determine whether a second charge should be granted over my property xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx to the Claimant Natwest Bank.

4. District Judge XXXXXX “General Order of Judgment or Order” following a court hearing on 9/12/08 stating 1. Claimant has permission to issue an Application for a Charging Order. 2. This file shall be heard with Claim Number XXXXX(Mrs)

5. This claim has been allocated a seperate hearing from Claim Number XXXXX on which a Final Charging Order has also been applied for.

4.I wrote to the court and the claimants solicitors on xxxxx (attached) and have not received a reply.

5. The claimant has claimed for the same debt against myself on Claim Number XXXXX and my wife Mrs xxxxxxxx on claim number x and has obtained two interim charging orders which enter a second charge on my property in the claimants favour of £12000. As the total debt owing to the claimants is £6000 I do not feel this is fair.

5. I have not missed any payments (agreed at £25 per calendar month under county court judgement dated XXXXXXXXXXX ) My wife, Mrs XXXXXXX has also not missed any payments to the claimant (£25 per calendar month under county court judgment order dated xxxxxxxxxxxxx) In total we are paying £50 per month to the claimant.

6. In addition I have a dispute with the claimant regarding unfair bank charges, they have offered to make an interim payment to us totalling £3,778 (please see attached letter) under an exemption in the FSA waiver for complainants in financial difficulty and the remainder will be held until the conclusion of the test case Office of Fair Trading v Abbey Nation & Ors.

7. We intend to use the refund to settle this debt. The total amount disupted currently stands at XXXXX. This outweighs any debt owed to the Claimant.


8. hubby ill, lost job struggling to cope added stress dealing with duplicate claim for same amount plus other debts (reposession order etc you had ?)

want charging orders to be put on hold until dispute sorted and eventually we want whole caboodle striking out and ccjs removing as the claims should not have been bought.

We are LIPs and can not afford legal representation and we ask the court for consideration of this vs the considerable resources of the claimant etc

stuff for info



Offer letter from NW, offering a goodwill gesture of £3,778! no mention of court case.

Letter from Shoosmiths refering to our conversation the day before yesterday, stating that "NW have told them to close the file. They have written to court vacating the Final Charging Order hearing listed for 8 July and requesting that the interim charging order be discharged. They also go on to say that they have lodged the necessary papers at the land Registry to remove the restriction registered against our property."
However, since I spoke to NW yesterday, I now know that NW have instructed Shoosmiths to reopen the file and commence legal action, so assume I will be getting a revised letter from Shoosmiths tomorrow!

Also received letters from Land Registry B136(CO) Notice of an application to register a restriction against the land lodged by Irwin Mitchell.



23/7/08 Mr received Judgement for Claimant (acceptance) letter from court to pay £25 pm.

15/8/08 Mr received Notice of Transfer of Proceedings to local court

16/9/08 Mr received letter for Irwin Mitchell offering either a payment plan or a one off settlement.

1/10/08 Mrs received Notice of Hearing letter from Court for 28/11/08.

14/11/08 Mrs received a statement of costs for the forthcoming hearing from Shoosmiths

25/11/08 Mr received Notice of Hearing from court for 9/12/08

28/11/08 (Not sure if this is relevant) Mr & Mrs both received letters from Natwest - A “Notice is given in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because you have failed to make required payment. Re : Terminated Overdraft on account number XXXXXX
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2/12/08 Mr sent CPR 18 letter to Irwin Mitchell.

2/12/08 Mr sent application for a Stay to court.

6/12/08 letter sent to Natwest (see post 165)

9/12/08 Mrs received letter from court “General Order of Judgment or Order” following court hearing on 28/11/08 stating 1. Judgement order to pay £25 pm. 2. Permission to apply for a charging order to enforce the judgment.

17/12/08 Mr received letter from court received “General Order of Judgment or Order” following court hearing on 9/12/08 stating 1. Claimant has permission to issue an Application for a Charging Order. 2. This file shall be heard with Claim Number XXXXX(Mrs)

5/1/09 Letter received from Natwest (see attached)

20/1/09 Letters sent to Natwest, Irwin Mitchell & Shoosmiths (see post 224) together with spreadsheet.

30/1/09 (Not sure if this is relevant) Mr & Mrs both received letters from Natwest - A “Notice is given in compliance with the Consumer Credit Act 1974 because you have failed to make required payment. Re : Terminated Overdraft on account number XXXXXX

5/3/09 Reminder sent to Natwest re previous letter

30/4/09 2nd reminder sent to Natwest

20/5/09 Mrs received Interim Charging Order letter from Court.

20/5/09 Mr received Interim Charging Order letter from Court.

29/5/09 Mr & Mrs Applications to set aside judgments ready to be sent to court.

29/5/09 Letter ready to be sent to Irwin Mitchell asking for full breakdown of charges and relevant account numbers.
__________________














4. This Judgement relates to a debt with National Westminster Bank plc for which I am jointly liable with my wife Mrs XXXX being a joint personal loan and a joint current account overdraft.

5. At the time of default - 28th March 2008 - the total owing to National Westminster Bank Plc is £2252.02 for Loan account number XXXXX, and £3819.33 for an overdraft on current account number XXXXX held with the National Westminster Bank Plc. The total debt was £6071.35. This is detailed on the attached default notices.

6. Both of these accounts were held jointly by myself, Mr XXXX and my wife Mrs XXXX.

7: On 28th March 2008 I received default notice (attached) for loan reference XXXX and overdraft reference XXXX. The accounts appear to have been passed to two separate collections agencies (solicitors) for collection.

7. On 20/06/2008 I, Mr XXX, received a claim form from Northampton Bulk Processing Centre dated 20th June 2008 for the debt detailed in paragraph 5(above) Claim number. The claim was bought by Irwin Mitchell Solicitors. Please see appendix 1a.

8. I entered an admission on 23/07/2008 for the full amount and made an offer to pay of £25.00 per calendar month.


9. With reference to claim number The District Judge sitting at Northampton county court on 23/07/2008 made the following orders

Judgement entered against the defendant on 23/07/2008 for payment of £25 pcm or £6623.29 payable forthwith.

The Defendant has been making payments of £25 pcm to the claimant.


10: On or around 15/06/2008 my wife Mrs XXXX received a claim from Northampton Bulk Processing Centre dated 13th June 2008 for the debt detailed in paragraph 5 (above) Claim number XXXX. The claim was bought by Shoosmiths Solicitors. (Appendix 2a)

11: On or around 20/6/2008 the Defendant entered an admission for the full amount.

12: The District Judge sitting at Northampton county court on 17/07/2008 made the following orders
Judgement entered against the defendant for £6536.23 payable forthwith including costs.

13. A redetermination hearing was held on 28th November 2008 for claim XXMRSXX where the District Judge sitting at XXXX county court on made an order to pay £25 per month. The Defendant has been making payments of £25 pcm to the claimant.

14: It is my contention that this claim number XXMRXX is a duplicate of claim number XXMRSXX as both relate to the same debt with National Westminster Bank Plc (detailed in paragraph 5 above) (and as such should be set aside.) ????????

15. I have an ongoing claim against the claimant for the reclaiming of bank charges totalling £4,890 + interest = £6,336.40. On the 3/6/09 I applied for reimbursement of these charges asking to be considered under the Hardship ruling. On 19/6/09 the Claimant wrote to my wife and I advising us that our claim had been accepted and that interest on our current account had been frozen and that recovery action had been suspended pending the outcome of the OFT court case and that we would be receiving an offer within the next day or two. During a phone call with the claimant on the 25/6/09, the claimant stated that they were still pursuing me and the court hearing would go ahead on the 1/7/09 whereby a final charging order may be granted on our property. On the 8/7/09 a hearing is due to be held for claim XXMRSXX whereby a charging order may be granted, this will then give the claimant a total charging orders of over £13,000 for one debt of approximately £6,500. During my phone call with the claimant on the 25/6/09 they stated that an offer letter had been sent out, with an offer of over £3,700, if accepted this would then bring the debt down to approximately £2800.[/quote]

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

FFS ruby they are ****ing you about.

Natwest need to sort this out. Call them ask them to confirm by email or fax (if you have access to one?) or letter first class exactly what the situation is with the case from both irwins and shoosmiths - the account is jount, the hardship claim is joint so anything done with one should be done with the other. Tell them you are preparing documents to be putting documents into court ref hearing next week and their conduct will be bought to the courts attention.

ALL these letters we'll have to submit to court to try make the judge see how poorly natwest are dealing with this.

I'll hold off on finalising the WS (will carry on as we were for now tho) till we get something up to date from NW.



Shoosmiths is the one against you isnt it.

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Yes Shoosmiths are after me. You do realise that although I have received the letter from them today saying file now closed, They did call me yesterday to say NW had been in touch and told them to commence with legal action as they had been told mistakenly to close file. So I am expecting a revised letter from them any day.

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Yes Shoosmiths are after me. You do realise that although I have received the letter from them today saying file now closed, They did call me yesterday to say NW had been in touch and told them to commence with legal action as they had been told mistakenly to close file. So I am expecting a revised letter from them any day.

Its bloody ridiculous isnt it. Yes i do realise that and I would call Natwest and stay on the phone until you get someone who actually knows whats happening and exactly what they are doing re these claims, and why they havent responded to your letter.

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

The problem I have though Ame is that when you do speak to someone they run rings round me cause I dont understand their lingo, its very difficult for a someone like me to do this kind of thing.
------------------------------- merged -------------------------------
Which dept should I speak to? or do I just call the customer response unit? thats who I spoke to yesterday and they spoke to Litigation and Customer Response unit got back to me. Dont know if I have a direct number for Litigation...

Also frightened in case they decide to withdraw my offer if I make a big song and dance about things!!

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

hmm ok can completely understand that. leave it for now we can just include everything, letters etc calls info in this witness statement. I think a main outline then a list of dates contacts and outlines of what they told you.

no one replied to your part 18 request for information nor your letters.

why on earth the courts let them get away with this I don't know.

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Ok Ame, just sorry I am not as knowledgeable as you lot on here! Bet you wish I had never found this site Just let me know when you want me, just buzzing around the house today so will keep checking every few mins xx

[Amethyst]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Its okay honey we just want to do the best for you. Tools and I will work on this tonight, he;s working at the moment and we work better together. So dont worry you dont need to do anything just let us know if you get any letters/calls and we'll sort this to take to court on monday ok?

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

First court case for hubby is on Wednesday. We can always post it through the court letter box over weekend if necessary?

I will never be able to thank you enough for all the help and support you have given me, I just wish I could repay your kindness somehow!!

[ruby15]

Re: County court Judgment and bank charge reclaiming - help needed!!

Just a quick question, am I ok to sign the acceptance form for the money, it does state in the letter " We can assure you that once the legal proceedings are completed we will apply the findings to your case and ensure that your acceptance does not prevent you from benefiting if the legal decision is more advantageous to you"

on the acceptance form it just states "We accept your goodwill offer in respect of our complaint"

Want to get it sent in todays post if possible.

I know it sounds obvious but dont want to cock this up!