Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

[swifty]

Hi everyone! I am a newby to the forum and in need of avdise please.

On the 5th Of August I had a Field Agent serve me with a letter for Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy, he then called the debt recovery firm 'CapQuest' on his mobile and passed the phone to me.
After confirming who I was they said they the full amount is now due (£5165.06) and how would I like to pay it, I told them that I have no money as I am currently unemployed.
They said I have 18 days to send them a letter with my incoming/outgoings listed on it otherwise they will go to the County Court for a bankruptcy petition against me.

They also said that in 2007 I made a payment to them,I told them that I have paid nothing and that the debt goes as far back as Feburary 2005.

I along with my wife do own our home but like I said earlier I have no job at the moment as I've just lost my job so all money we get is put aside to pay the mortgage and feed the kids.
There's about £95k owed on the house and the way house prices have dropped since last having the house valued at £105 (2 years ago) I would say it's probably less than what's owed.

What's bothering me the most "well I say bothering me, I mean annoying me" is the issue with the payment in 2007 they say I made.
I know for a fact the I made no payments!
Come to think of it CapQuest took over the account on the 30th October 2007
I know the bank where the debt originated from handed over the account to it's banks Debt management team on or before 01/02/2005, this is the date on the letter from the bank that I have kept.
I did not let the Field Agent into my property and I didn't sign anything.

The debt was run up on an advantage gold account, it was for £4100 in total.
There was a lot of bank charges included in the total amount, some bank charges where added on because of previous bank charges.
If my memory serves me right I think all the bank charges and interest from the original £4100 debt was around £1000 to £1200.

I sent CapQuest a CCA request 'recorded delivery' on the 19th August (14 days after receiving my hand delivered letter), so CapQuest would receive my request before my 18 days where up.

I received a letter on the 27th of August from CapQuest, it read-

"We are in receipt of your request for documentation under section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 which was dated 21 August 2010, and can confirm that the documents have now been requested from National Westminster Bank Plc and will be forwarded to you as soon as we are in receipt.

I note from your letter that you require information regarding your account history and can confirm that data of this nature is generally provided under a Subject Access Request for which there is a fee of £10.00. If you require such information kindly forward this fee and your request will be dealt with as a separate issue to that of your Consumer Credit Act request."

Now I thought the £1 postal order I sent off with my CCA request would cover all of the above mentioned, the fact that they already have the information on of my account to hand sounds a bit suspect to me.
Are they hoping that I won’t send them the £10 so they don’t have to dream up an alleged payment in 2007?

Now I got a Claim Form yesterday, it was issued on the 1st September 2010 from County Court Bulk Centre. 4th floor St Katharine's House, 21-27 St Katharine's Street, Northampton NN! 2LH.

I thought CapQuest couldn't take it to this stage utill they had supplied me with my CCA request?
And! The court is 224 miles away which stops me from defending myself, even if I had been informed about the court hearing in the first place.
They've now added an additional £190 Courts Fee and £100 Solicitor's costs.
Can anyone shed some light on what CapQuest are upto and if they have broken any protocols

One final question! the CCA request deadline of 28 days, is that 28 calender days or working days?

Can anyone help me with this please

[BillandBen]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

The 18 days origionally would have been to get the SD set aside. It would seem however that they have now decided to go down the county court route.

Is it for a Bank account or credit card?

Is the claim form you have recieved an N1 form? If so can you please let us have a look at the POC that is on the front page?

Oh and Northampton is just the bulk centre ..... IF it goes as far as court it will be allocated to one near you

[swifty]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

It's for a bank account with overdraft facility that was frozen by the bank in Feb 2005.
The only numbers I can find on the claim form is on the bottom left, NICPC Claim form (04.06)
I've put an attatchment for you to look at.

[Amethyst]

Have removed your name and address from the N1 - also it is a little blurry - could you type up the Particulars of Claim please (leave off your account number just put xxxxxxxx)

Was the stat demand actually confirmed as discontinued ?

Also, Northampton is the bulk processing centre, and once you are through the initial stages (acknowledge/defend) it will be allocated to a court near you.

[swifty]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

Particulars of Claim

Monies due under regulated Credit Agreement
number xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Between
National Westminster Bank plc
and the defendant the benefit of which
was assigned to the Claimant on 30/10/2007
The Agreement terminated upon the
Defendant(s) failure to comply with the
terms of the Agreement and/or the
statutory Notice of Default served by
National Westminster Bank plc
The Claimant seeks interest
pursuant to section
69 of the County
Courts Act 1984
at the rate of 8%
per annum from the date of
issue continuing at the daily rate of 1.13
Any payments or queries should be directed
to the claimant on (phone number)
or (fax number)
(Email Address)


Not sure if the stat demand has been confirmed, it says nothing about it on the court form??

[Amethyst]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

This is a claim for an overdraft with Natwest on an advantage gold account.

The claims for £5165. The overdraft was £4100.

You believe the extra (and some of the £4100) is bank charges (as its a bank account overdraft I dont think there is a great deal you can do on that but you can bring it up and possible get that amount stayed pending the outcome of a case in scotland going on at the moment - but defending or claiming bank charges is currently quite a risky thing to do costs wise)

You havent yet asked for a list of transactions on the account from natwest, or a statement of the account from capquest.

You havent made any payments to the account since the account went to debt management at natwest feb 2005.

You havent made any payments to capquest at all.

When did you lose your job ?

What were your circumstances when you defaulted on the overdraft ?

Do you have any other debts / in a DMP etc ?

Your last contact regarding the account as Feb 05 - thats why they have stuck it in court now as Feb 11 it would be stat barred. The pretend 07 payment is just to cover their arses in case this carries over. You can combat that as you didnt make any payment to them and they'd have to prove you did.

You didnt send Capquest the IE sheet they asked for. Just the CCA request (which isnt highly relevant if this is for an overdraft tbh)

What do you want to do with this ? How much, realistically, would you be able to pay each month towards the debt ? (after taking everything else into account).

There isnt much equity in your house, and with it being your main residence and having kids, its unlikely even if capquest did try for a charging order it would ever go to a sale order. There isnt the equity to pay it in reality, it would just sit on the property with you paying your affordable amount under a CCJ installment for the foreseeable until it was paid off or until you sold the house.

[swifty]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

I had a leeter yesterday from Natwest, they've sent back my £1 postal order along with a cover letter requesting that I go into a local branch with my drivers licence to photocopy and fax to there Credit Management Services in Telford so they can further identify me.
I did this thismorning and I'm gonna re-send my original CCA request as reqested by them.

The CCA request they sent back has been stamped with the date it was received (26/08/2010), now does the 28 day time limit start from that date or does it restart from the date they receive the latest CCA request?
Also! is it 28 calender days or 28 working days

[swifty]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

OK! it's been 33 calender days or 22 working days since the date NatWest received my CCA request. can anyone answer my previous question regarding the 28 day rule.
Is it 28 working days or 28 calender days??
And where do I stand if they send me the credit details after the dead line.

I recieved a letter first from the court saying they will put the case on hold until the plaintiff says otherwise and a letter from CapQuest (along with my original £1 postal order saying:- "We have previously received your fee, and so a second fee is unnecessary" it's the only one I've ever sent albeit twice!)
They wrote: We have now been in contact with National Westminster Bank plc to request the relevant documentation, and we have placed your account on hold whilst we await the information.
We have also instructed our solicitors to do the same and can confirm that no further action will be taken whilst we await the documentation from National Westminster Bank plc.

The letter was dated 21 September 2010

Why are they waiting to receive the documentation when it was me that requested it, surely NatWest would send it staight to me.

[Skaatiii]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

Im quite interested in this as I am in a similar position re: the SAR I have a hearing following a set aside of 6.1 which is due to be heard on 10.11.10 - will post all details on forum once Ive had a read up on here.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

CCA request time is 12 + 2 days.

CCA request isnt valid on an overdraft as they are not covered by the relevant sections of the CCA.

Sorry I've got a bit confused with your case

1) Stat Demand - what happened with that did they discontinue it ?

2) Court claim - what happened with that - is it stayed at court ? Did you enter an acknowledgment of service or defence at all?

Have you read my post Legal Beagles Consumer Forum - View Single Post - Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy and can you answer those questions.

Are you in Scotland ?(just wondering why the reference to plaintiff rather than claimant)

[swifty]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

I somehow knew that the CCA request was useless for an overdraft as there is no signed agreement, I just wanted to delay them for as long as possible as it will become statute barred in Feb 2011 "fingers crossed my cunning plan works"

I thnk it was a threat of stat demand if I did nothing and now they're putting it through the courts until I put it on hold.

I fill in the court form stating in my defence that I am await proof from the Bank that this was my debt and that I need more time to work on my defence, the court along with CapQuest have put it all on hold.

I live in England

ps. thanks for the link, gonna read it now

[swifty]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

This is a claim for an overdraft with Natwest on an advantage gold account.

The claims for £5165. The overdraft was £4100.

You believe the extra (and some of the £4100) is bank charges (as its a bank account overdraft I dont think there is a great deal you can do on that but you can bring it up and possible get that amount stayed pending the outcome of a case in scotland going on at the moment - but defending or claiming bank charges is currently quite a risky thing to do costs wise)

Q. You havent yet asked for a list of transactions on the account from natwest, or a statement of the account from capquest.
A. I was waiting until they supplied me with the CCA request and then I was going to ask for a SAR request listing all account details.

Q. You havent made any payments to the account since the account went to debt management at natwest feb 2005.
A. Cant really add anything to that other than your right

Q. You havent made any payments to capquest at all.
A. none at all

Q. When did you lose your job ?
A. I lost it at the end of 2004 when our caring local council closed off most the roads to my shop in order to upgrade the roads to the newly built Morrisons store, 18 weeks of hell and inevitable closure (luckily as I had gone limited most debts from the business where cleared from my name)
I also lost my latest job in June this year 'cutbacks'

Q. What were your circumstances when you defaulted on the overdraft ?
A. As mentioned above, I lost everything thanks to the damn council.
Tried to claim all my losses against them but my solicitor said I didn't have enough evidence against them so they wouldn't risk me getting any further into debt.

Q. Do you have any other debts / in a DMP etc ?
A. Yes, all from the same period.
However they (up to now) have not chased me for payment

Q. Your last contact regarding the account as Feb 05 - thats why they have stuck it in court now as Feb 11 it would be stat barred. The pretend 07 payment is just to cover their arses in case this carries over. You can combat that as you didnt make any payment to them and they'd have to prove you did.
A. Thanks for the intel, I intend using this as a further delay tactic

Q. You didnt send Capquest the IE sheet they asked for. Just the CCA request (which isnt highly relevant if this is for an overdraft tbh)
A. If I had sent them the IE sheet I would have acknowledged the debt as mine and it would be easier for them to claim against me in court.

Q. What do you want to do with this ? How much, realistically, would you be able to pay each month towards the debt ? (after taking everything else into account).
A. I want it to go statute barred (hopefully), cant really pay anything as I am unemployed and every penny counts at the moment.

There isnt much equity in your house, and with it being your main residence and having kids, its unlikely even if capquest did try for a charging order it would ever go to a sale order. There isnt the equity to pay it in reality, it would just sit on the property with you paying your affordable amount under a CCJ installment for the foreseeable until it was paid off or until you sold the house.

I hope this answers most your questions, I know I sound a bit harsh not wanting to pay anything.
But the way this debt was run up in the first place really rubs salt in my wounds as it feels that I was let down (through no fault of my own) by my council then the bank crucified me with bank charges.
I've worked hard all my adult life, always paid my bills on time (apart from 2005)
That year I lost my house because I couldn't pay the mortgage and finally my marriage through the worry and arguments.
I now have a new wife (married 3 years) and an ex-council house that my wife bought when we first met, I was added to the mortgage nearly 2 years ago.

I guess Im not prepared to lose anymore

[Amethyst]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

Thanks I'll check the statute barred stuff ref them taking it into court as I doubt it will hang over till after Feb 11 anyway tho I understand you trying to keep it held up till after then and you stillhavent acknowledged the debt is yours which is good.

Do you have bank statements from around the time they say you paid. The onus of proof for that is on them, they are saying its an overcounter giro slip payment arent they, so just sit tight on that - it will only become useful if it gets to after Feb 11 and they take the case no further.

So if they do respond to the court and restart the case, then it isnt stat barred yet you are left defending the claim due to the charges incurred on the account.

To do that we will need all the transaction lists to see how the charges built up and were applied through the relevant period so I would suggest doing a SAR to Natwest - not giving account numbers or acknowledging debt - just asking them for all data they hold relating to you as an individual. (it is your personal account isnt it this one?). specify any agreements / transaction lists and give them addresses over the past 6 years so they dont have that excuse to not find anything.

I think that would be a useful exercise while you await their next move.

[Amethyst]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

Oh and ref your shop and the Morrisons store and councils rearrangement of roads to your absolute deteriment - I know you've closed the case with your solicitors, I just wondered if you raised objections to the plans for the store and road changes at the planning stages ?

[swifty]

Re: Advise needed with a Statutory Demand for Bankruptcy

I lost all the bank statements when I seperated from my ex-wife, she binned the lot including all the paperwork from the business.
As for the payment they say I made, they didn't go into details about exactly how , when or where the payment was made, all I know is no payments have ever been made.

Won't the bank send everything they have to me in responce to the CCA I sent them?
However! I will send them an SAR request but I need to make sure my timing is right, I need to delay things as much as possible.
I'll probably have to send an SAR request to CapQuest as well, it'll be interesting to see this bogus payment.
But again I don't want to rock the boat, they may think their bogus claim of payment has failed and rush the whole thing through the courts.

I really know nothing about how these people work, so I have to think the worst of CapQeust and play as dirty as I can.

As for the Morrisons store, along with me none of the other businesses around me was aware of any road closures until the morning we all tried to open up.
It was then we where told about the road closures by some guy from the council who seemed to know there was going to be trouble with the local businesses (6 in total including me).
He said it would last approximately 4 to 5 weeks, on week 4 we all got a letter stating the road works will take a total of 16 to 18 weeks.
And just to put the boot in, they still wanted full council tax.

I'll stop going on about them, it's starting to put me into Victor Meldrew mode


Thanks for your help BTW, you've been very helpfull and I look forward to your words of wisdom in the near future :okay: