Help making a formal complaint to council Re Bailiff.

[janeyjewel]

Hi, this morning I've had some advice from your Council Tax Advisors. Co.uk,which was very helpful, we've been told to go to the council to make a formal complaint. What exactly do we need to say please. We've also been told if that doesn't work to put in a written complaint as we have cleared our council tax debt and this is just their removal charge that we have been informed has been added illegally,and we don't have to pay. So we could do with knowing exactly what we need to put in a letter. Thank you so much you service is absolutely invaluble.

[nemesis45]

Re: Help making a formal complaint to council Re Bailiff.

Make a written Formal Complaint to the CEO of your local authority.
Why do you consider the charge "illegal"?

Your complaint should state clearly the reason for making it, and what you want the council to do.
Keep it clear and concise.

[janeyjewel]

Re: Help making a formal complaint to council Re Bailiff.

We were told that because we've already cleared the original debt plus the extra charges from them coming to a different address when payment plan was set up, they have added this extra amount when thought we had played in full and hadn't heard from then in a while. One we came in to find a letter stating they had attended with a removal van. Prior to this when we thought we had played the final amount I had informed the office that the goods on the walkthrough were not at this new address as we couldn't afford to move them and that all items in this property were owned by the landlord who has confirmed this verbally to a previous balliff who had also met him. The bailiff was happy that this was correct.We had defaulted on the agreement near the end of it ,whilst we had to move, this is why the balliff attended and added extra charges of £120. We arranged with him that if we cleared the rest of the debt,which we were told was £40 then they would waive the van charge. We did this and cleared the complete bill in less than the agreed 10 month period. We didn't hear from them for a while as expected and the we got another letter saying we owed £125.32 I rang the office and I was informed that this was only being pursued because there was £5.32 outstanding and the £120 was for the van and not debt. We played the £5.32 immediately. So is van charge illegal as we have been told, as we have been told that they are going to force entry tomorrow to remove goods. They have never been in this property. We've also been told that they cannot force entry is this correct? Thank you.

[janeyjewel]

Re: Help making a formal complaint to council Re Bailiff.

My partner,who I am a joint claimant with both for benefits and council tax, is in receipt of ESA and is in the support category as she has chronic mental health issues and is also in receipt of DLA. Does this make any difference as this is causing her mental health to deteriorate even further. Please could someone reply asap as I need to go to the council this afternoon and want to be in full possession of my rights.Thank you.

[janeyjewel]

Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

Re: Help making a formal complaint to council Re Bailiff.

We were told that because we've already cleared the original debt plus the extra charges from them coming to a different address when payment plan was set up, they have added this extra amount when thought we had played in full and hadn't heard from then in a while. One we came in to find a letter stating they had attended with a removal van. Prior to this when we thought we had played the final amount I had informed the office that the goods on the walkthrough were not at this new address as we couldn't afford to move them and that all items in this property were owned by the landlord who has confirmed this verbally to a previous balliff who had also met him. The bailiff was happy that this was correct.We had defaulted on the agreement near the end of it ,whilst we had to move, this is why the balliff attended and added extra charges of £120. We arranged with him that if we cleared the rest of the debt,which we were told was £40 then they would waive the van charge. We did this and cleared the complete bill in less than the agreed 10 month period. We didn't hear from them for a while as expected and the we got another letter saying we owed £125.32 I rang the office and I was informed that this was only being pursued because there was £5.32 outstanding and the £120 was for the van and not debt. We played the £5.32 immediately. So is van charge illegal as we have been told, as we have been told that they are going to force entry tomorrow to remove goods. They have never been in this property. We've also been told that they cannot force entry is this correct? Thank you.

[nemesis45]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

A bailiff can make entry is a door/window is left open, so secure all possible points of entry.
If the bailiff has made a previous peaceful entry he can get into the property previously entered, not in my opinion to any other address.
I presume this " agreement to Waive" was verbal only and nothing was put in writing?

If the bailiff does attempt to enter you should call the police and explain that you feel threatened and the bailiff has not made peaceful entry on this property.

Unlawful charge maybe illegal no.
Have you all the receipts for monies paid?

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

Re: Help making a formal complaint to council Re Bailiff.

We were told that because we've already cleared the original debt plus the extra charges from them coming to a different address when payment plan was set up, they have added this extra amount when thought we had played in full and hadn't heard from then in a while. One we came in to find a letter stating they had attended with a removal van. Prior to this when we thought we had played the final amount I had informed the office that the goods on the walkthrough were not at this new address as we couldn't afford to move them and that all items in this property were owned by the landlord who has confirmed this verbally to a previous balliff who had also met him. The bailiff was happy that this was correct.We had defaulted on the agreement near the end of it ,whilst we had to move, this is why the balliff attended and added extra charges of £120. We arranged with him that if we cleared the rest of the debt,which we were told was £40 then they would waive the van charge. We did this and cleared the complete bill in less than the agreed 10 month period. We didn't hear from them for a while as expected and the we got another letter saying we owed £125.32 I rang the office and I was informed that this was only being pursued because there was £5.32 outstanding and the £120 was for the van and not debt. We played the £5.32 immediately. So is van charge illegal as we have been told, as we have been told that they are going to force entry tomorrow to remove goods. They have never been in this property. We've also been told that they cannot force entry is this correct? Thank you.

I'm going to leave the subject of charges to the experts but, to put your mind at rest, they can't force entry. There are certain circumstances where bailiffs can force entry, mostly to recover magistrates court fines or debts to HMRC, but this is not the case here.

If the bailiff hasn't been in your home before, then you don't have to open the door to them. Try to keep all doors and windows locked to be on the safe side and warn other household members not to open the door. Be aware that bailiffs can take vehicles and other goods from outside your home (such as bikes and stuff stored in the garden shed).

You may want to look at this link for reference: http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...top_tips_e.htm

You know a bailiff is coming

• keep doors and windows closed and locked at all times - bailiffs are allowed to get into your home through a usual means of entry, such as an unlocked door. They're not allowed to enter your house through any way that isn't a usual means of entry, such as an open window, but it's a good idea to keep your windows closed anyway, as it will make you feel more secure and protect you from illegal bailiff action.
• tell everyone in the house to keep windows and doors locked and not to answer the door unless it's someone they know
• don't open the door to a bailiff - if there's a knock at the door or the doorbell goes, ask who's there before opening the door. If a child under 16 will be alone in your home, make sure they know to tell the bailiff they are under 16 and home alone, as this will mean the bailiff has to leave.

The bailiff is on the doorstep

• don't let the bailiff in, even if they ask to use your toilet or say they 'just want to talk'. Once the bailiff is in, your belongings may be taken. The bailiff may tell you that they have a right to enter your home to take control of your belongings. This is technically correct, but you also have a right not to let them into your home. The bailiff can only enter peaceably and with your permission, unless they have the court's permission to use force.
• talk to the bailiff through the door or letterbox. Ask to see their authorisation, proof of identity or evidence of the court's permission to force their way into your home - they can put it through the letterbox or under the door
• if you decide to open your door, don't let the bailiff in. Tell them you won't give them permission to enter your home. Stand in their way, hold your ground and don't let them in. The bailiff isn't allowed to push past you or jam their foot in the door
• politely ask the bailiff to leave and tell them you will contact the creditor directly to arrange a repayment plan for the debt

[MissFM]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

I don't think he's allowed through the window anymore, Nem. It's normal means of entry only (ie the door) AFAIK. x

[FlamingParrot]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

I don't think he's allowed through the window anymore, Nem. It's normal means of entry only (ie the door) AFAIK. x

Yes, that's true after the new regs came into force in April, as they say, "not unless you normally come into your home through a window". Having said that, the CAB still advise to lock the windows 'just in case', bailiffs are not always known for following rules and it's always easier to argue with one that's standing outside than one that managed to sneak in through a window. Given the time of year, keeping the windows shut shouldn't be a big problem.

[josephbloggs]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

it's difficult to advise because you have been vague about the background to it all.

I will go off my assumptions based on what you have said.
first of all i'm guessing council tax?
at your first address, were you visited by bailiffs?
did they gain entry?
if yes, did you agree a repayment plan with them?
did you sign a walking possession agreement?

you made a mention of a £120 charge, now given that this does not tie in with new regs charges i assume the bailiff intervention started before the 6th of april 2014?
im guessing that you may of defaulted on the repayment terms set, thus leaving you liable for a van fee/ enforcement fee/ attendance to remove fee. (means the same, name of fee varies from company to company) but it is a legal charge if a prior levy was undertaken.

when you moved were the items listed on an inventory (assuming they were) taken with you to your new property? you say not. and i assume the inventory of goods would be seperate to what you have now?

a bailiff can in theory use the walking possession to gain access into property for council tax if its at the same property where a prior levy was undertaken and repayment terms broken.

if its at a different address they have to have reasonable cause that the items listed are there and have been moved in order to stop the bailiff from removing them. this is called pound breach and/or breach of walking possession and in theory the distrainor is entitled to sue for damages.

but you say that the goods you have now are not the same ones listed and in fact belong to the landlord. is this correct?

i would say that you need to refuse access to the bailiff next time they attend, and show them the inventory that items are now the landlords. this would usually be on your tenancy agreement.

you need to request a statement of charges from the bailiff or company detailing when each amount was charged, especially the £120 fee. you need to tally it up with payments that you have made against the account. and then if there is a difference between the two amount, try and settle the figure.

[Milo]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

There is very little background so enable an adequate response but what I have been able to gauge from your post is that the bailiff has listed goods on a 'walkthrough'. By this I would assume that you would be referring to a Walking Possession Agreement. This is a legal document and it would now seem that the bailiff is seeking to 'gain entry' to remove these goods.

Do you know what items were listed and roughly how much were they worth?

When was the Walking Possession signed and when was your last payment? If question is important to ascertain whether the bailiff has 'abandonded' the levy.

[bizzybob]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

Janeyjewel, for clarity then, the goods he levied at your previous address, you say youl left them at the last property, were you forced to leave that one and couldn't afford removal costs?

Could you post up the list please, as he may have levied on some exempt items.

Your current property is rented furnisghed correct?

In whiuch case the bailiff can't have anything away that isn't yours.

As advised do not let them in.

Did they call yesterday with a van again?

[bizzybob]

Re: Help making a formal complaint to council Re Bailiff.

My partner,who I am a joint claimant with both for benefits and council tax, is in receipt of ESA and is in the support category as she has chronic mental health issues and is also in receipt of DLA. Does this make any difference as this is causing her mental health to deteriorate even further. Please could someone reply asap as I need to go to the council this afternoon and want to be in full possession of my rights.Thank you.

Remove your name from your first post so that the bailiff cannot ID you from the thread, if the time for editing has passed, maybe Site Team could do it for you

[nemesis45]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

I don't think he's allowed through the window anymore, Nem. It's normal means of entry only (ie the door) AFAIK. x

Unfortunately any "open " access point can be used. Window or Door FM, despite the new rules it still happens.
As far as I know the new rule has yet to be challenged.

[bizzybob]

Re: Can bailiff enter my home tomorrow?

Unfortunately any "open " access point can be used. Window or Door FM, despite the new rules it still happens.
As far as I know the new rule has yet to be challenged.

Yes the temptation would be too great, however as the new rules state door only, if occupier suddenly challenged by bailiff who entered through a window, then they would be entitled to use reasonable force to eject the bailiff imho, using R v Tucker 2013 COA as the precedent, However as the bailiff is likely to be a burly, surly individual, it might not be a good idea to try.

Mind you I have heard of bailiffs being severely injured by a vicious cat they encountered when they climbed in though a window. Nothing they could do the police told them can't do anything about a cat, as it isn't a dog so no criminal liability of owner,

This needs testing in court to see if the window entering bailiff can be done for breaking and entering as it clearly states Normal Means of Access in the new Regulations..

Bluebottle and Sir Vere will likely have a meaningful opinion here.

Jayney, you do not have to open the doior to the bailiff and it would be a bad idea to do so. Filming him through the letterbox even with a mobile phone to record any threats and lies. is an option.