Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

[Milo]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Hi Milo,
I think that what we are annoyed about, is the fact that the OP's wife has notified the council and Equita about the mix up.
Yet they appear to ignore this and insist the bill is paid by the daughter.
It should never have gone to bailiffs in the first place.
Bureaucracy gone mad..........

John....and you are right of course. You will see that I have specifically made this exact point in my above post and this is why we need to know exactly how the appeal had been made and whether it was in writing.

As a side issue, so many people fail to properly appeal a PCN and the number of people that actually appeal to either PATAS or PTP is very small indeed (even though this is free). I try to steer away from assisting with PCN appeals by it is the case that with ones that I have assisted with every appeal had been accepted. The starting point must be to make representation IN WRITING and submit by email and by mail.

If a PCN is at 'warrant' stage there is NO facility at all to 'appeal' to PATAS or PTP. The ONLY route back to PATAS (or TPT) is if an Out of Time application was made and accepted (which is quite rare) and a new Notice to Owner issued.

Hopefully the OP will return today to provide details of the V5c as it is important to get this case on hold as soon as possible.

[Milo]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

In fact, there has been a PUBLIC report from the Local Government Ombudsman severally criticising an LA for failing to change the name or address of the 'debtor' when advised at an early stage of an error. In that case the LA in question failed to update their system and continued to allow all statutory notices to be sent to the wrong address/name.

Once again, we will need to know more about the appeal and the position with the V5c.

The problem that you have when at 'warrant' stage is that the wording on the warrant provides a 'command' to the bailiff to enforce against the named debtor. Accordingly, the bailiff cannot and must not 'go behind' the instruction on the warrant.

[lacs54]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Milo is quite right and even handed... Just HOW does commonsense and basic humanity not become involved in the early stages of the PCN... Oh right forgot, its a money making scheme by councils nothing to do ultimately with traffic management as this sad case proves

[Milo]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Milo is quite right and even handed... Just HOW does commonsense and basic humanity not become involved in the early stages of the PCN... Oh right forgot, its a money making scheme by councils nothing to do ultimately with traffic management as this sad case proves

Quite so. A PCN is an automated process and the starting point is whether or not the KEEPER details at DVLA are accurate.

The problem with 'appeals' is two fold. Firstly the keeper must be specific and abide by the strict timeframe and must be willing to make FORMAL represenatation. The problem with local authorities is that so many of them use 'back office' providers to deal withe PCN challenges and many times, this company will be the very same one who employed the parking attendants.!!! With 'formal 'challenges these are supposed to be reviewed by a LOCAL AUTHORITY member of staff.

[lacs54]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

....The problem with local authorities is that so many of them use 'back office' providers to deal withe PCN challenges and many times, this company will be the very same one who employed the parking attendants.!!! With 'formal 'challenges these are supposed to be reviewed by a LOCAL AUTHORITY member of staff.

Agreed
IF at the early stage of My PCN - Lancs CC member of staff and not a back office employee - had actually '' read'' my statement 18 [EIGHTEEN] months ago we would not have gotten to the point we did yesterday, which you sorted hone: .
So thank-you for your clear vision Milo. We should bottle ' it ' or put it in the water.
lets pray this OP gets justice as equal as I did.. and SOON

[Johnboy007]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

John....and you are right of course. You will see that I have specifically made this exact point in my above post and this is why we need to know exactly how the appeal had been made and whether it was in writing.

As a side issue, so many people fail to properly appeal a PCN and the number of people that actually appeal to either PATAS or PTP is very small indeed (even though this is free). I try to steer away from assisting with PCN appeals by it is the case that with ones that I have assisted with every appeal had been accepted. The starting point must be to make representation IN WRITING and submit by email and by mail.

If a PCN is at 'warrant' stage there is NO facility at all to 'appeal' to PATAS or PTP. The ONLY route back to PATAS (or TPT) is if an Out of Time application was made and accepted (which is quite rare) and a new Notice to Owner issued.

Hopefully the OP will return today to provide details of the V5c as it is important to get this case on hold as soon as possible.

You are of course correct.
My own daughter was guilty of not notifying anyone and it did indeed go to the bailiffs.
aw:

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Quite so. A PCN is an automated process and the starting point is whether or not the KEEPER details at DVLA are accurate.

The problem with 'appeals' is two fold. Firstly the keeper must be specific and abide by the strict timeframe and must be willing to make FORMAL representation. The problem with local authorities is that so many of them use 'back office' providers to deal withe PCN challenges and many times, this company will be the very same one who employed the parking attendants.!!! With 'formal 'challenges these are supposed to be reviewed by a LOCAL AUTHORITY member of staff.

This indicates lack of proper scrutiny by elected representatives and, in some cases, abnegation of responsibility by elected representatives for ensuring complete transparency in the process. If the law requires a Local Government Officer to deal with formal challenges, that is what must happen. Even with the best will in the world, I doubt very much outsourcing legislation would protect a private-sector company performing the functions of a public authority from formal investigation and/or legal action. I doubt very much the local authority would be protected either.

If correct procedures have not been complied with, this brings into question the lawfulness of any enforcement action that has taken place. It is unlikely TEC and the civil enforcement industry would be held responsible, as they are probably none the wiser, but those in local government who have allowed private companies with a vested interest in ensuring they maximise their revenue by minimising the number of formal challenges to the actions of their employees, whilst acting on behalf of a local authority, do have a lot of questions to answer.

[Amethyst]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Maybe we need to split the thread... the OP's thread, general motobility registration issues and compensation culture perceptions?

[Amethyst]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Offshoot threads - http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...Contraventions and http://www.legalbeagles.info/forums/...ture-in-the-UK in an attempt to keep this thread specific to the OP's situation.

[divineinspiration3]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

OP's UPDATE

Many thanks to all of you who have taken valuable time to either read the thread or make comments, all of which is fully appreciated. We returned from our holiday to find another letter from Equita, demanding even more money from Evie, our 6 year old. I thought F%&k this and called Manchester City Council and asked to be put through to the leader. I got his secretary/PA. A lovely lady who listened intently to what I had to say, which was basically this was my last ditch attempt at reasoning with the unreasonable before my next call to a national newspaper. I asked how MCC would feel reading a headline about them trying to extort money from a disabled 6 year old? She, like me and many of you, thought the whole scenario was absolutely ridiculous and promised to speak directly to the main man. She did and I'm pleased to say I received a call the next day from the head of their CCTV traffic dept stating how sorry he was, complete misunderstanding etc etc and they're calling off the wolves. He did also state he would send me written confirmation of our conversation, still not arrived, but we should hear no more from Equita or indeed anyone else re this matter. Fingers crossed that could be the end .................................................. ...................

[bluebottle]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

That is encouraging. If MCC steps up to the plate and does what they say they are going to do, then due credit should be given where it is due.

[Johnboy007]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Great news, and about time too.....

[bizzybob]

Re: Bailiffs demanding money from my 6 year old daughter

Excellent.