The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

[wales01man]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

Interesting debate on here, What we are getting is some saying Bailiffs lie and some saying Debtors lie well I never expected that?
as for ANPR they find the car but cannot identify the driver/Owner if they have changed unless these private companies have access to the DVLA database for live updates which must be illegal .
In a case on here in the last couple of days a police ANPR was allegedly used to assist a Bailiff?if this is true it means the Police are now doing the work of private companies can this be right?

[Fair-Parking]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

Happens all the time Wales01. Usually in London or Kent. I witnessed HHJ Cryan cross examine a Marstons bailiff over this issue. His Honour made the comment 'Some people might be sceptical about whether what you are describing to me is the real world, or not' adding 'Had it occurred to you at any stage that what might be happening could be of doubtful legality?

Marstons are still out there perforiming this illegal act along with the Metropolitan and Kent police 3 years later.

[Milo]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

These Police and Bailiff 'Roadside Operations are an almost daily event in London and have been used around the country since around 2003/4.

It is a frankly appalling way in which to enforce a warrant given that the bailiff is NOT seeking to enforce the debt against the individaul but instead....is seeking to locate a car with the same number plate as the one detected on the day of the contravention.

In London ( in particular) vehicle owners change their car more frequently than anywhere else in the Country and this method of enforcement means leads to vehicles being seized that belong to a new owner and many times, the new owner will be made to pay the previous owners debt in order to stop HIS car being sold.

[bizzybob]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

These Police and Bailiff 'Roadside Operations are an almost daily event in London and have been used around the country since around 2003/4.

It is a frankly appalling way in which to enforce a warrant given that the bailiff is NOT seeking to enforce the debt against the individaul but instead....is seeking to locate a car with the same number plate as the one detected on the day of the contravention.

In London ( in particular) vehicle owners change their car more frequently than anywhere else in the Country and this method of enforcement means leads to vehicles being seized that belong to a new owner and many times, the new owner will be made to pay the previous owners debt in order to stop HIS car being sold.

Dom they ever get that money back Milo with the schedule of consequential losses also incurred in claiming their property, or do the bailiffs obfuscate and avoid until the innocent resorts to county court and bailiffs themselves?

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

The use of ANPR most certainly IS an abuse. ANPR is the antipathy of warrants of execution. Why would bailiffs need ANPR if they drive straight to the address written on a warrant? It is because ANPR operators do NOT have warrants with them that they need ANPR. The whole purpose of ANPR is to detect a vehicle at a location not written on a warrant. That then invokes the ignoring of CPR 75 (7) (7).

Then we have data protection abuses. Already the passing on of private data from local authority to bailiff companies for the collection of an alleged civil debt falls outside of the Data Protection Act 1998. However the passing on of this data to fourth parties i.e. self employed ANPR bailiffs is a further abuse of the DPA.

As a separate but more condemning question -how many of these ANPR operators complete with their mobile data bases do you imagine are regsitered with the Information Commissioner's Office under Section 17 of the DPA as the law requires?

I am sorry, but I am going to upset everybody!

Data Protection Act 1988, Part IV, section 29

29Crime and taxation.

(1) Personal data processed for any of the following purposes—

(a )

the prevention or detection of crime,

(b)

the apprehension or prosecution of offenders, or

(c)

the assessment or collection of any tax or duty or of any imposition of a similar nature,

are exempt from the first data protection principle (except to the extent to which it requires compliance with the conditions in Schedules 2 and 3) and section 7 in any case to the extent to which the application of those provisions to the data would be likely to prejudice any of the matters mentioned in this subsection.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

Interesting debate on here, What we are getting is some saying Bailiffs lie and some saying Debtors lie well I never expected that?
as for ANPR they find the car but cannot identify the driver/Owner if they have changed unless these private companies have access to the DVLA database for live updates which must be illegal .
In a case on here in the last couple of days a police ANPR was allegedly used to assist a Bailiff?if this is true it means the Police are now doing the work of private companies can this be right?

The Metropolitan Police was asked by GLC/TFL to assist, as there are millions of pounds owed in unpaid PCNs, but, they were not using their own ANPR system, they were only asked to stop vehicles which were flagged by the bailiff's ANPR.

One might argue, but the Police are paid by the Local Authority!

[Fair-Parking]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

Remember I said 'the collection of an alleged civil debt falls outside of the Data Protection Act 1998'. Parking is just that and is not classed as either a crime or taxation. Section 29 does not apply and neither does Section 35 (legal proceedings) as engaging a bailiff is not 'legal proceedings.

Be aware that in April 2009 the ICO issued this directive

‘The Data Protection Act 1998 (the Act) regulates the processing of personal information and requires organisations to keep it secure. It generally restricts disclosure of personal information to third parties unless an exemption applies. Customers and employees will usually have an expectation that their information will not be disclosed to third parties without good cause’.

“In some exceptional cases, for example tracing a missing person, the information being requested by an investigator may be necessary for the prevention or detection of crime and so its disclosure may be exempt under Section 29 of the Act. This will not apply to civil matters such as the enforcement of debts’.

[Fair-Parking]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

With regard to other person's ANPR detecting alleged unpaid PCNs, passing personal information to the police is also breach of the DPA as this relates to an alleged civil debt. It is of no concern to the police

That is how we got this unlawful practice stopped in Manchester back in 2008. The company was Marstons.

Clearly this greedy immoral company must know why they were stopped in Manchester, but like any law that prevents Marstons collecting money it is not entitled to, this one was simply ignored in London.

[wales01man]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

The Police are actually paid for by the People through their taxes

[seduraed]

Re: The Certification of Enforcement Agents Regulations 2014. Discussion thread.....

The Police are actually paid for by the People through their taxes

At the moment yes wait to see what happens if Cameron and his cronies get re-elected