Threatened with prison today.

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

I had to google Stercus bovi

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

James De La Fuente

He was incredibly rude and condescending, so much so it took my breath away and as I was still reeling from the preison threat, I could barely reply.

[bluebottle]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The debt management guy at the council said that my actions constituted a refusal to pay, regardless of the fact I told him I would pay £300.00 today. Stercus bovi, and further from Amethyst's post

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/ these tactics are quite likely unlawful.

As to an actual committal to prison, if they were stupid enough to try, it could well blow up in their faces, as they have acted unlawfully by attempting to make affordable payments impossible.

Nothwithstanding, BB, if they went into court and alleged refusal to pay, knowing they had actively prevented and refused to accept payment, and the court got wind of it, the council would be royally stuffed. Taking account of the behaviour of Whyte & Co, Thurrock Council and, possibly, Serco, all three of them may well be acting unlawfully. It is vitally important the OP gets their ward councillors and MP onboard asap.

[Amethyst]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Serco are not nice people; from their performance on the offender tagging contract, one might even doubt if they are inherently honest.

But yet:

And:

So it would appear that the so-called Debt Management troll is actually working for Serco.

Exactly xx

Do we have a name of this gentleman?

[bizzybob]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

They would be very silly indeed if they summonsed you for a committal hearing as a willful won't pay as they are intimating when and if you then produce payment receipts in court......

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/

This has included calling debtors outside of normal office hours, tailored correspondence and text messages, the introduction of special debt management surgeries to help those people who owe payments and, where required, direct interaction with bailiffs. The new partnership approach with bailiffs has seen collections increase by 57% in this area over the last 12 months.

Serco are not nice people; from their performance on the offender tagging contract, one might even doubt if they are inherently honest.

But yet:

“Because of the shared partnership with Serco, the improvements and new procedures to address bad debts have not had a direct cost to the Council and the achievements in terms of payment recovery speak for themselves,” adds Cllr Phil Smith, Thurrock Council’s portfolio holder for central services. “Historical debt is a serious financial thorn in the side for the vast majority of local authorities around the country and it requires a concerted and sustained effort to overcome the problem.”

And:

Serco provides a wide range of customer management services for Thurrock Council including Revenues collection and Benefits administration. It also delivers other services ranging from procurement, HR and payroll to adult community solutions.

So it would appear that the so-called Debt Management troll is actually working for Serco.

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Thank you all for taking the time with this I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

A local authority cannot lawfully refuse any payment. If Whyte & Co are making it difficult or impossible to pay, then it can be argued they are actively preventing you from paying and that the Council, who are legally-liable for their actions, could be taken to be condoning their actions. If Serco is acting for your local Council and know of or are encouraging Whyte & Co's behaviour, just remember they are one of the companies exposed as defrauding the Ministry of Justice out of millions of pounds. They are not to be trusted. Pay what you can realistically-afford via the Council's automated payment system or internet banking. I would strongly advise you to get your ward councillors and MP involved in your case.

This is one of the big issues I have had. I don't have a debit or credit card so I have not had a mechanism to pay off any of the debt.

Especially as when all of this started I contacted the national debt line who suggested I don't pay using paypoint in case the council refuse payment (something I now know wouldn't happen but at the time believed)

I have today paid £300 on the paypoint but won't have any spare money for 4 weeks until next payday. I'm just scared I get a summons in that time.

[bluebottle]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/

This has included calling debtors outside of normal office hours, tailored correspondence and text messages, the introduction of special debt management surgeries to help those people who owe payments and, where required, direct interaction with bailiffs. The new partnership approach with bailiffs has seen collections increase by 57% in this area over the last 12 months.

To be honest, Amethyst, I would question the lawfulness of such tactics. Local authorities have an awful habit of doing things like this, finding out, further down the line, that the policy is either unlawful or illegal - or both - and have to back-pedal like fury to avoid legal action or try and dig themselves out of the hole they have dug for themselves. A lot of the problem lies with council officers or, to be more accurate, elected representatives failing to effectively hold council officers to account.

Whilst on The Guardian's website, I found this - http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...arged-decision - Yet another of the Cabbage Patch Doll's sneaky and nasty ways of bullying those least able to defend themselves.

[bizzybob]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The debt management guy at the council said that my actions constituted a refusal to pay, regardless of the fact I told him I would pay £300.00 today. Stercus bovi, and further from Amethyst's post

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/ these tactics are quite likely unlawful.

As to an actual committal to prison, if they were stupid enough to try, it could well blow up in their faces, as they have acted unlawfully by attempting to make affordable payments impossible.

Re: Threatened with prison today.

The guy called me this afternoon 14:30. He's the debt managment officer for the council.

Did you get the bugger's name?

Did you note down the telephone number he used?

[John139]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Thanks for the reply, I'm pretty speechless about the court documents!

I'm currently earning a decent salary so would not be eligible for hardship - but would lose my job if I were to get a criminal conviction. This is what really bugs me about all of this I, if they hadn't told me they would not accept anything less than full payment, could have had this cleared in three months.

[bluebottle]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

I am sure it was the guy from the council I recognised the name and voice from when I called last week.
My council Thurrock Council.
The DEbt managment officer is the guys title and his letters are all on headed thurrock council paper.
The bailiff is Whyte and Co.
The bailiffs havn't done anything terrible like I've been reading in the forums on here except that they have always point blank refused any money that is less the full amount.

A local authority cannot lawfully refuse any payment. If Whyte & Co are making it difficult or impossible to pay, then it can be argued they are actively preventing you from paying and that the Council, who are legally-liable for their actions, could be taken to be condoning their actions. If Serco is acting for your local Council and know of or are encouraging Whyte & Co's behaviour, just remember they are one of the companies exposed as defrauding the Ministry of Justice out of millions of pounds. They are not to be trusted. Pay what you can realistically-afford via the Council's automated payment system or internet banking. I would strongly advise you to get your ward councillors and MP involved in your case.

[Laurieloo2]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

Hi,
Im no expert and can only provide you with a response from my own experiances.....
I received terrible letters from Bayliffs for an unpaid (and extremely unjustified!!) parking ticket, these companies use scare tactics which are wrong and despicable! I work for a law firm so Im pretty clued up on what tactics are used for debt recovery and they will try anything. I had a company make a copy of court forms saying they had lodged them against me, the copies were pretty bad and considering I had seen these many times at work, knew that they were fake and this is a criminal act.......falsifying court documents as a scare tactic! My point is they will try anything a thats how they make their money!
IF you make payments direct to the council they are never going to return the money saying you have to pay bayliffs so I would pay council direct. I would first of all though go to citizens advice drop in on a day where someone qualified can offer help. Surely even councils are legislated by some sort of Ombudsman so I would get the details for that and fill them in on the situation. People in hardship are meant to be given a lot more help with debts especially as your willing to make regular monthly payments and their refusal at the situation will not be taken well with an ombudsman. Even so, these will take weeks for responses. The above is correct though, there are court orders and steps to be taken, I do not believe you will be arrested in any event but in any case something like that would only happen if court orders are violated etc and to be honest you would be so far down on the list of "criminals" for violating a court order I could never see it happening!
IF I were you I would get in touch with citizens advice immediately, the ombudsman that regulates the council after CAB, make the monthly payments you suggested direct to the council perhaps by internet banking (putting in your council tax account number) so you an show a record of the payments made at all times. They is also a fund called "the hardship fund" that British Gas and others do, I dont know your situation but if you are in hardship with utilities, mortgage, rent etc you can apply for a grant (again takes weeks but worth looking if you are eligable).
My sister had bayliffs for council tax and they were awful, would only except full amount and they didnt even have the right amount!! They were trying to get double the amount she owed and she was seriously ill at the time, they prey on the vunerable. And dont answer the door!! Bayliffs can only gain entry to your property is you answer the door, a window is open etc if there are no unlocked windows and doors they should not be able to gain entry.

Good luck! Stick to your guns and keep us updated x

[Amethyst]

Re: Threatened with prison today.

e

On a Saturday? I don't think so. I think you will find the call was made by a certificated bailiff who is running a very real risk of losing their certificate or worse if they try that stunt again. Local authorities run an emergency service only on Saturday, Sundays and Bank Holidays. I have asked a family member who has worked in local government for 34 years to confirm this.

To the best of my knowledge and belief, local authorities have Receivers, but not Debt Management Officers. Anything to do with Council Tax would be the responsibility of the Head of Finance. There are a number of hoops a local authority has to jump through before they can scuttle off to a court for a Committal Order.

Could you name the local authority and bailiff company in your case, please?

Also this looks quite interesting from June 2013 - http://www.sercoglobal.com/new-appro...rrock-council/

This has included calling debtors outside of normal office hours, tailored correspondence and text messages, the introduction of special debt management surgeries to help those people who owe payments and, where required, direct interaction with bailiffs. The new partnership approach with bailiffs has seen collections increase by 57% in this area over the last 12 months.