Marstons and PCN

[scoobyra]

Re: Martsons and PCN

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be awkward. My concerns are that a)they'll try and revisit my c/o address, even though they've been told I don't live there thus stressing my elderly father out even more and b) then try and charge me for another visit.

I've just printed the letter and I'm going to send it to their head office.

[ploddertom]

Re: Martsons and PCN

Well there lies your problem then. The Bailiffs are doing nothing wrong by visiting the address they will have on the Warrant. Your Dad should really have a Statutory Declaration sworn to say all goods on the premises are his, give the Bailiffs a copy and they should then back off.

[scoobyra]

Re: Martsons and PCN

Quick update on this. I sent a letter of to Marston's head office last week regarding a breakdown of their charges and I'm now awaiting a reply. Luckily, my car is not at the c/o address and hopefully, the bailiff should take note that he's been told that I don't live there. The bailiff does however have my mobile number although I'm yet to hear from him since the appeal was rejected.

[scoobyra]

Re: Marstons and PCN

Another update. The 14 days requested for Marston to reply with a breakdown of their fees and charges has now passed and not a sign of the information. What should I do now?

[ploddertom]

Re: Marstons and PCN

Send them a reminder, the 14 days qoted is only from yourself and has no basis for making a complaint. However 14 days is a reasonanble time limit.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Marstons and PCN

Firstly, hello - this is my first time on this forum.

I have a Bailiff issue with Marston following a PCN which went from £95 to £339 following a bailiff visit - even though I'd contacted them to arrange payment.

Cutting a long story short, I appealed the PCN via an out of time witness statement to suspend the enforcement. Unfortunately, my appeal was rejected.

I called Marstons this evening to ask if they have been advised to proceed and what the balance was. They said I had to pay £339. When I said that this was wrong, quoting the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993, the call operator got very shirty and said that it had to be paid. She said I had to contact the bailiff, a Mr Hampton as he was the person collecting the debt and refused to take any other amount except the £339. Again, I quoted the regulations stating that no walking possession was made and that I did not agree to the charges and she said that they attended the property (a c/o address which is my fathers and not where I live. The bailiff was also told I didn't live there and my father didn't know where I was) and they were entitled to their fee as agreed with the council.

Can you please advise me of my next course of action as I feel they are not going to go away.

Thanks in advance.

The bailiff charged you £28 visit fee and £175 Attendance to remove fee (both are subject to an additional 20% VAT)

Now, for your benefit and for your father's peace of mind, you should write to Marston stating that you have moved away and provide them with your new address, at this point all previous charges and fees are removed, then they will have to write to you demanding the PCN and £11.20 (plus VAT) and you have 7 days to pay.....pay!

[scoobyra]

Re: Marstons and PCN

Now, for your benefit and for your father's peace of mind, you should write to Marston stating that you have moved away and provide them with your new address, at this point all previous charges and fees are removed, then they will have to write to you demanding the PCN and £11.20 (plus VAT) and you have 7 days to pay.....pay!

Thanks for this information. Without wishing to sound cynical..... is this watertight? The address they visited was a C/O address but I advised the Council to forward the PCN to that address.

Marston have been very uncooperative and if this is the case, I'd quite happily pay the court order and their initial charge of £11.20 + vat.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Marstons and PCN

It is absolutely water tight, it is a contractual agreement between the Enforcement Agency and Winchester City Council.

[scoobyra]

Re: Marstons and PCN

Ok, here's the latest update. Today I received a letter from Marston detailing their charges which are as follows:

Thank you for your recent correspondence. We can confirm Mr Hampton was certificated on 13th May 2013 at Portsmouth County Council, this expires on 12th May 2015,

In regard to the fees you have incurred, these charges have been calculated in accordance with the Authority of Recovery of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993[1993/2072] (as amended 2003).

The breakdown is as follows:-

Penalty Charge £82
Letter Fee (25/09/2013 £11.20
Attendance/Levy Charges (19/12/2013) £28
Attendance to Remove (19/12/2013) £175
VAT £42.84
Total £339.04

Please note that the warrant/order(s) issued against you has been assigned to one of our Enforcement Agents. As such your correspondence had been passed to the Agent for their information/action.

We suggest that you make contact with the Agent as a matter of urgency. Please see details below:

Mr Hampton
07*** 8*****

Given the fact that a) it's a care of address and although my car is registered there, I don't live there and b) the car wasn't there to remove and c) the bailiff was told I didn't live there......

How can they charge the attendance to remove fee?

I'd like to go down the advice given by Sir Vere but I don't have another address yet.

[Sir Vere Brayne d'Emmidge]

Re: Marstons and PCN

Ok, here's the latest update. Today I received a letter from Marston detailing their charges which are as follows:

Thank you for your recent correspondence. We can confirm Mr Hampton was certificated on 13th May 2013 at Portsmouth County Council, this expires on 12th May 2015,

In regard to the fees you have incurred, these charges have been calculated in accordance with the Authority of Recovery of Road Traffic Debts (Certificated Bailiffs) Regulations 1993[1993/2072] (as amended 2003).

The breakdown is as follows:-

Penalty Charge £82
Letter Fee (25/09/2013 £11.20
Attendance/Levy Charges (19/12/2013) £28
Attendance to Remove (19/12/2013) £175
VAT £42.84
Total £339.04

Please note that the warrant/order(s) issued against you has been assigned to one of our Enforcement Agents. As such your correspondence had been passed to the Agent for their information/action.

We suggest that you make contact with the Agent as a matter of urgency. Please see details below:

Mr Hampton
07*** 8*****

As expected!

Given the fact that a) it's a care of address and although my car is registered there, I don't live there and b) the car wasn't there to remove and c) the bailiff was told I didn't live there......

Who and when told the bailif that you do not live there? Was it before the visit? If your car is registered at that address it is a fair assumption that that is your residence.

How can they charge the attendance to remove fee?

One attendance to remove is charged on all TMA Warrant of execution, depending on Marston's contract with the specific client. The bailiff does atttend with the intention of removing goods if the defaulter does not pay, it's their duty.

I'd like to go down the advice given by Sir Vere but I don't have another address yet.

I know it's none of my business, but if you do not reside at the address the bailiff attended you must be reside somewhere, even if it's a B&B or a friend's house, if you do not provide Marston with a new address then the fees on the current warrant are only going to go up and up, and they (Marston) will think that you are just trying to pull the wool over their eyes.

As I wrote two posts ago, once the bailiff is informed of a change of address the warrant is returned to the issuing Authority and it starts a letter stage again, so if you are staying with friends or family there is no risk that a bailiff will visit those premises if you pay within a few days (immediately to stay on the safe side) of receivin the letter.

Further advice in red above

[scoobyra]

Re: Marstons and PCN

Before I follow your instructions, I had corresponded with Winchester City Council to inform them that I had sold my house and that my father's address was a care of address - will this go against me? I have notified Marston to say that I don't live there and my father told them the same.

Also, from my understanding, the most they can charge me is the PCN plus 28%, not £175 so but looking at the original amount £95.44 then I'm only liable for £28 therefore, they are over charging me?

[Monkey Drunk]

Re: Marstons and PCN

People often believe that informing the local council of a house move means that all departments should then know automatically. This is not the case as the various databases (CTax, parking etc) are not linked. Believe it or not, each department is bound by the Data Protection Act and as such, not "allowed" to divulge information to each other!

Considering the sheer amount of liability orders and parking tickets that go to court, there simply isn't the Council manpower to manually cross check each and every alleged debtor against each database. Instead, the councils rely on the Enforcement Company's in-house tracing departments to do all this costly work themselves!

Please also bare in mind that a high percentage of debtors phone bailiffs and inform them that they no longer reside at a warrant address. I'm afraid this doesn't wash unless they provide a forwarding address. This is Court action at the end of the day and it won't go away just because you claim you don't live there unless bonafied information to the contrary comes to light.

With regards to your understanding of the fees "allowed", this is unfortunately subject to two quite distinct interpretations of the law.

When looking at the Table of Fees, Charges and Expenses, the anti-bailiff brigade will trumpet paragraphs 1-3 as being the law, the undeniable law and nothing but the law. Bailiff companies, on the other hand, rely on paragraph 6 to legally add the Attendance to Remove fee on first visit as well as the the initial visit/levy fee mentioned in 1-3.

Despite a certain well known case in the Manchester area (years ago) which challenged the ATR fee, the ruling never became law by statute as no one else appears to have followed it through with further challenges.

[scoobyra]

Re: Marstons and PCN

People often believe that informing the local council of a house move means that all departments should then know automatically. This is not the case as the various databases (CTax, parking etc) are not linked. Believe it or not, each department is bound by the Data Protection Act and as such, not "allowed" to divulge information to each other!

Considering the sheer amount of liability orders and parking tickets that go to court, there simply isn't the Council manpower to manually cross check each and every alleged debtor against each database. Instead, the councils rely on the Enforcement Company's in-house tracing departments to do all this costly work themselves!

I informed the correct department of my C/O address and said that they could send correspondence there although I didn't have a fixed address due to the sale of my house.

Please also bare in mind that a high percentage of debtors phone bailiffs and inform them that they no longer reside at a warrant address. I'm afraid this doesn't wash unless they provide a forwarding address. This is Court action at the end of the day and it won't go away just because you claim you don't live there unless bonafied information to the contrary comes to light.

My father did tell the Bailiff that I didn't live at his address.

With regards to your understanding of the fees "allowed", this is unfortunately subject to two quite distinct interpretations of the law.

When looking at the Table of Fees, Charges and Expenses, the anti-bailiff brigade will trumpet paragraphs 1-3 as being the law, the undeniable law and nothing but the law. Bailiff companies, on the other hand, rely on paragraph 6 to legally add the Attendance to Remove fee on first visit as well as the the initial visit/levy fee mentioned in 1-3.

Despite a certain well known case in the Manchester area (years ago) which challenged the ATR fee, the ruling never became law by statute as no one else appears to have followed it through with further challenges.

I'm happy to challenge the ATR fee as there wasn't anything for the Bailiff to levy on. As a Bailiff, what are your thoughts on this?

[ploddertom]

Re: Marstons and PCN

In my view the Bailiffs have so far done little wrong. You cannot give an address & then complain about them visiting.

[Monkey Drunk]

Re: Marstons and PCN

I'm happy to challenge the ATR fee as there wasn't anything for the Bailiff to levy on. As a Bailiff, what are your thoughts on this?

My thoughts are that you'll probably be wasting your time. In order to challenge the ATR you must apply to a County Court to have a detailed assessment hearing. Unfortunately, the prerequisite for the assessment is that the debt has been settled first (including the bailiff fees).

If you refuse to pay and Marstons send it back to the Council, you run the risk of it being sent to another bailiff company. This will undoubtedly incur the fees from the new fee structure (as of April 6th) and potentially incur fees of over £300.