Marston - TVL

[handcut]

Hello everyone,

I wonder if anybody can offer me some advice?

I appear to have got myself in a bit of a pickle with Marston over an alleged unpaid court fine of £100 for "No TV LICENCE (EDI)" the date given is almost 10 years ago. Here is a breakdown of events so far:

Aug 2013 - Received a letter from Marston demanding £185 for a £100 no TV licence fine from 10 years ago, plus £85 'costs'. Upon receipt of this, I panicked a bit and paid the fine on-line using the HMCTS website. I then e-mailed Marston to inform them of this.
6 days later, they replied with a request for a receipt, which I supplied them with.

Skip forward to last Friday, 8th Nov. I received a letter stating that I have an outstanding bill with them for £300, down from £400 after my payment of £100. They are saying if I do not settle the account within 7 days, an 'agent' will come and take my stuff. :colbert:

I e-mailed them to ask what they were playing at. Where the hell has this £400 come from?! Then I started reading around - primarily on this site - and realised the severity of the situation. Its a criminal offence, not civil. Oh dear. I've barely slept since Friday...

The first letter was the first I knew about the fine - but that was in August. I realise now I should have filed a Statutory Declaration - but it's beyond 21 days AND I've paid the original fine to the court.

What I want to know is:

Is it still worth making a stat dec?
Should I submit a S.A.R to find out where this exorbitant increase on the original amount has come from? They threaten an 'attendance fee' of £215 in their first letter. Could it be that? Attendance to what? My house? Its rare that myself or my two flat mates are all out of the house at the same time and surely they would leave a card or issue some kind of notice that they had been and that the fee had been applied.
Is there something I'm missing here; should I just empty my bank account and pay up? I'd rather not as I can't help feeling they're being, at the very least, unfair.
Should I attempt to get some legal advice through my Union? Actually, the voice in my head is already screaming 'yes' to that one.

Please, anything at all. It would be most appreciated!

[Inca]

Re: Marston - TVL

:bump:

[wales01man]

Re: Marston - TVL

Worth trying for Legal advice from your Union its what you pay them for

[enquirer]

Re: Marston - TVL

I appear to have got myself in a bit of a pickle with Marston over an alleged unpaid court fine of £100 for "No TV LICENCE (EDI)" the date given is almost 10 years ago.

Firstly, is this a genuine fine? Were you actually convicted 10 years ago?

[handcut]

Re: Marston - TVL

Thanks for the reply. I assume it is a genuine fine as the court accepted payment for it. Perhaps I'm being a little naive there. Was I actually convicted? No - I've never knowingly been convicted of anything, ever! I'm very much your typical law-abiding serf!

[wales01man]

Re: Marston - TVL

If its a court fine you have been convicted of that offence although its a minor one,or am I wrong

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston - TVL

Worth trying for Legal advice from your Union its what you pay them for

I agree with you, Wales. Professional legal advice is what the OP needs. If the fine pre-dates the implementation of the Criminal Procedures Rules 2011, which it clearly does - 2003 - then, I would say there could be a question mark as to whether enforcement by Marstons was, in fact, in order.

[handcut]

Re: Marston - TVL

If the fine pre-dates the implementation of the Criminal Procedures Rules 2011, which it clearly does - 2003 - then, I would say there could be a question mark as to whether enforcement by Marstons was, in fact, in order.

That's interesting. Could you elaborate?

I've spoken to both my union legal team and Marston's today. The union's stance was very much 'pay it, but dispute the fact there's no evidence of a visit' and Marston's 'customer care' person pretty much said the same thing! However, they also said a) that Marston's keep GPS tracking of agent visits, which I can request, and b) an agent called on a day when I was definitely at home, as was my flatmate and a visitor! Apparently, they 'confirmed residence' with a neighbour. I asked the neighbours and they know nothing. Someone is telling porkies.
I'll be submitting a subject access request tomorrow. I'll let you know how it all goes.

In the meantime, any further thoughts would be welcome.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston - TVL

If the fine dates back to 2003, it is possible that what HMCTS has done may not be entirely in accordance with the law. With very few exceptions, legislation cannot be applied retrospectively. The Criminal Procedures Rules 2011 came into force in 2011, eight years after the fine was imposed. It is likely that different legislation as regards the enforcement of magistrates courts fines applied at that time.

I feel your best course of action is to contact HMCTS themselves and find out what is going on, stressing that the fine was imposed 10 years ago and asking them to explain what legislation or case law they are relying on to involve Marstons.

[enquirer]

Re: Marston - TVL

I assume it is a genuine fine as the court accepted payment for it.

Not necessarily.

Perhaps I'm being a little naive there.

Baseless prosecutions and gullible magistrates rubber stamping convictions in the absence of the defendant is a known phenomenon.

Was I actually convicted? No - I've never knowingly been convicted of anything, ever!

Find out one way or the other, and get it in writing.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston - TVL

TVL are very good at obtaining dodgy convictions for alleged TV Licence offences, they have even manged to get guilty verdicts from a nodding donkey JP against people who don't own a TV. 10 years is a long time ago, and it would be pre Crapita.

[labman]

Re: Marston - TVL

Have Marstons actually been out to your property regarding this fine? If you were out, you would still know as they have to, by law, leave paperwork.

It would be hard NOT to know if you had been convicted of an offence 10 years ago. Do you have any recollection of anything to do with this whatsoever?

Have you moved address during that time?

Have you recently received a Further Steps Notice from the court regarding this fine?

How did you pay the actual fine, and how much was it?

[handcut]

Re: Marston - TVL

Have Marstons actually been out to your property regarding this fine? If you were out, you would still know as they have to, by law, leave paperwork.

They say they have, but no paperwork was left and the date/time they say they were here, there was definitely someone home.

It would be hard NOT to know if you had been convicted of an offence 10 years ago. Do you have any recollection of anything to do with this whatsoever?

Nope. There strange thing is, I've a vague memory of moving house around the date Marston's specify. Difficult to work out though, as I've moved house about 12-15 times in the last 10 years!

Have you recently received a Further Steps Notice from the court regarding this fine?

No - as I said, the first letter from Marston's was the first I knew about any fine.

How did you pay the actual fine, and how much was it?

I paid using the HMCTS website and it was £100. That's what is really bugging me about this - the fact that a supposed criminal conviction costs you £100, yet someone sending you a letter about it, along with the mere suggestion of knocking on the door one day, cost another £300.

I've sent a subject access request - recorded delivery - to them, but the tracking system says 'delivery attempted'. No doubt it will sit at the sorting office for a week before coming back to me!
Anyway, when I spoke to them on the phone, they said the account is 'on hold' for 14 days. Its Friday tomorrow, so I'm expecting another letter. Looks like my next step should be to contact the court regarding the conviction - but how to go about it?

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston - TVL

They say they have, but no paperwork was left and the date/time they say they were here, there was definitely someone home.



Nope. There strange thing is, I've a vague memory of moving house around the date Marston's specify. Difficult to work out though, as I've moved house about 12-15 times in the last 10 years!



No - as I said, the first letter from Marston's was the first I knew about any fine.



I paid using the HMCTS website and it was £100. That's what is really bugging me about this - the fact that a supposed criminal conviction costs you £100, yet someone sending you a letter about it, along with the mere suggestion of knocking on the door one day, cost another £300.

I've sent a subject access request - recorded delivery - to them, but the tracking system says 'delivery attempted'. No doubt it will sit at the sorting office for a week before coming back to me!
Anyway, when I spoke to them on the phone, they said the account is 'on hold' for 14 days. Its Friday tomorrow, so I'm expecting another letter. Looks like my next step should be to contact the court regarding the conviction - but how to go about it?

In short, Marstons refused to sign for it, in which case, the postie takes it back to the sorting office, which would explain the "delivery attempted". If you haven't spoken to the court yet, do so. If you don't know which court imposed the fine, but have an HMCTS reference, you could contact the HMCTS Area Enforcement Team and ask them to explain what is going on.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston - TVL

It is quite possible that 10 years ago, TVL obtained a conviction on OP at the possibly empty house, after they had left.