You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

[GO84]

There's this bloke on Youtube I've come across this evening. He clearly isn't the sharpest tool in the shed and does seem rather confused and deluded. He thinks his council can't make him pay for parking fines because it's public property, so he thinks it belongs to everyone and they're just trying to con people to make money. So presumably he's using city car parks without bothering to pay. I've tried to talk sense to him, but he keeps blocking me.

He's heard of the "No contract" thing, where supposedly if you write that on a PCN and send it back, they can't touch you. And he keeps referring to the 1689 Bill of Rights. I have never studied the law but I do have common sense. Just tell me it's not true that you don't have to pay parking fines (unless it's from a private company but that's been stopped now, hasn't it?)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntxu1nwP8m8

It's quite sad really. He has a baby that he's refused to give a vaccination to for some misguided reason.

[bizzybob]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

It's a FMOL Freeman on The land common law, no contract so no jurisdiction argument he is postulating, some swear by this , but generally it is for the extremely brave or foolhardy to go with this method.

[leclerc]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

He's actually referred you to this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

We refer to Pepipoo: http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showtopic=46975

To be honest and I am not sure I would have gone as far as he has but being a nuisance will get it revoked. What he has stated is that he is not going to break the law(and he has put that in the comments he has made). So for example, he is not going to not pay a driving fine from a policeman but he will not pay parking fines and that is an approach that you can use.

I do not think personal attacks on his right to choose not to vaccinate his child has any relevance to the issue and I hope that is not brought up again on this thread because it's irrelevant to his viewpoint.

[GO84]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

It's a FMOL Freeman on The land common law, no contract so no jurisdiction argument he is postulating, some swear by this , but generally it is for the extremely brave or foolhardy to go with this method.

He seems to think it's a get out of jail free card. He asked for me to give proof to back up my argument, I quickly found this http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1989/16/section/2 but I don't know if he actually looked at it. He probably wouldn't understand a word of it anyway.

[leclerc]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

One further comment, please try not to discredit someone on here as a nutter when clearly his method has worked, does work and is working. Most people will receive a fine from a supermarket for overstaying and pay it. That is foolish. Never pay it and you will never go to court.

[GO84]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

He's actually referred you to this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAIcdi9niHA

That talks about PRIVATE car parking companies, not the council. He seems to think it applies to every car park.

[bizzybob]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

If someone wishes to use FMOL or no contract it is up to them, it may even work. I wouldn't advocate FMOL as a general remedy, it is for the individual to research and go in with eyes wide open, and fully aware of the consequences if it goes pear shaped. If it works for someone, great, but it is not a mainstream remedy.

[GO84]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

Surely you cannot just park in a public car park with ticket machines and use some archaic law to avoid paying? Surely legislation has changed from that?That's what he seems to think. There were more comments between us but he's deleted them now. I didn't get abusive, it was only the first post I called him a fool, then I decided to try and talk him round without being too insulting.

[Celestine]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

But you don't need to 'talk him round' do you?

He's as entitled to his approach as you are.

It's unlikely to cause mass civil disobedience and is a risk/chance he is taking in full awareness of the risks.

[GO84]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

It just sounds unbelievable. I could understand if he just meant those cowboy clamping firms, or a supermarket charging for overstaying like was said above, but he really seemed to think it meant any parking space on public property. If you really aren't obliged to pay to park anywhere, why doesn't everyone stop doing it? It would be chaos if people could park wherever the hell they liked.

[Celestine]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

It would be chaos, that is true. I personally think it is unlikely that you could 'systematically' get away with repeatedly failing to pay PENALTY charge notices. But the occasional individual manages to get away with certain debts by being a persistent pain in the backside. It doesn't necessarily mean they are right, it just means that the local councils legal team are unable to dedicate the time required to handling such individuals.
Also, I'd rather pay the few quid than dedicate the next 6 months of my life to defending myself on Freeman grounds.....seems like a poor economic decision to me.

[bizzybob]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

I'm with Celestine on this one we can advise, but it is up to an individual what course of action they take.

[GO84]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

He's as entitled to his approach as you are.

Oh, so if I didn't believe I should pay tax, I would be perfectly entitled to try and avoid it?

Isn't it directly breaking the law to not pay for a parking ticket (from a machine) for an urban parking space? What about the act I linked to?

Isn't this guy just being a complete crackpot?

[Celestine]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

Oh, so if I didn't believe I should pay tax, I would be perfectly entitled to try and avoid it?

Isn't it directly breaking the law to not pay for a parking ticket for an urban parking space? What about the act I linked to?

Yes you are entitled to TRY, but I am confident eventually the correct authorities would catch up with you.

If you read carefully, you'll note that I agree with you, just not your determination to 'talk him round'.

[GO84]

Re: You can't ignore parking fines, can you?

No, you can't be entitled to attempt something illegal, otherwise it would be legal!