Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

This is from the excellent Bailiff Advice Online website and touches some of the issues raised on this thread

What is a Clamping Order?
If the bailiff is collecting an unpaid Magistrates Court Fine, he will have been provided with a Clamping Order issued under the Courts Act 2003.




The importance of seeing a copy of the warrant.
It is important to note that the Contract between HMCS and the relevant bailiff companies provides that an Enforcement Officer cannot enforce a Distress Warrant against you if it is more than 180 days old !!
If a bailiff has visited you to enforce a distress warrant for an unpaid Magistrates Court Fine there are legal provisions concerning the bailiff showing you the actual Warrant. We have provided details of the Statutory Legislation concerning this at the end of this section which provides that:
• “A person executing a Warrant of Distress must either show the warrant to the person against whom the distress is levied, or state where and how it can be inspected.
• It is not essential that the warrant be in the possession of the person executing it at the time of execution.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

It is all very woolly.

It seems to me that the debtor would have to ask to see the actual warrant, and if the bailiff did not comply he could not continue until he did, so in theory any levy made without compliance would be unlawful. IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES

However if the debtor did not ask to see the actual warrant, and the bailiff continued with he levy, it would be perfectly legal.

You have a valid point. However, as we know from experience, Marstons use bullying and intimidation to overcome the matter of the warrant. Although the court warrant would exist, Marstons would have some explaining to do if their Walt Disney warrant was subsequently challenged in the light of actions by bailiffs that were not authorised by the court warrant.

The court warrant is the bailiff's protection and compliance with its conditions is paramount if the bailiff is not to have their actions come back and smack them in the mouth. Not having it in their possession at the time of attending an alleged fine defaulter's home does raise questions of probity and compliance with the law.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

You have a valid point. However, as we know from experience, Marstons use bullying and intimidation to overcome the matter of the warrant. Although the court warrant would exist, Marstons would have some explaining to do if their Walt Disney warrant was subsequently challenged in the light of actions by bailiffs that were not authorised by the court warrant.

The court warrant is the bailiff's protection and compliance with its conditions is paramount if the bailiff is not to have their actions come back and smack them in the mouth. Not having it in their possession at the time of attending an alleged fine defaulter's home does raise questions of probity and compliance with the law.

The point I am trying to make(and failing obviously)is that it does no mater that the piece of paper presented to he debtor was manufactured by My Disney or not, as long as they do not specifically say it is he actual warrant. They do not have to have the actual warrant in their possession.

If however the debtor asks to see the actual warrant that may be a different matter, I am suggesting(tentatively) that in order to abide by the strict rule of law the enforcement would have to be suspended until this was done.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

The point I am trying to make(and failing obviously)is that it does no mater that the piece of paper presented to he debtor was manufactured by My Disney or not, as long as they do not specifically say it is he actual warrant. They do not have to have the actual warrant in their possession.

If however the debtor asks to see the actual warrant that may be a different matter, I am suggesting(tentatively) that in order to abide by the strict rule of law the enforcement would have to be suspended until this was done.

I would agree with that viewpoint, however as we know, marstons would beg to differ, so on it goes around in circles with no definitive answer.

[kim481]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Just received a reply for one of my emails... I have posted it below for you to view...

Good Morning,

Just to confirm that I am in recept of your e-mail which was sent to us yesterday (17th March 2013 at 12.23). I have seen on your account that you have spoken with the Team Leader in Essex today regarding your concerns.

I can confirm that I have forwarded your e-mail to Marstons Group for them to deal with - I have asked them to deal with this as a priority matter and I have also asked them to confirm to me that A Chapman has an up to date Bailiffs Certificate - to which I am still awaiting a reply.

If you do not receive any contact from Marstons Group - please let me know and I will chase them on your behalf.

Kind Regards.

Mrs Jane Williams
Enforcement Team Leader - CENS

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Just received a reply for one of my emails... I have posted it below for you to view...

Good Morning,

Just to confirm that I am in recept of your e-mail which was sent to us yesterday (17th March 2013 at 12.23). I have seen on your account that you have spoken with the Team Leader in Essex today regarding your concerns.

I can confirm that I have forwarded your e-mail to Marstons Group for them to deal with - I have asked them to deal with this as a priority matter and I have also asked them to confirm to me that A Chapman has an up to date Bailiffs Certificate - to which I am still awaiting a reply.

If you do not receive any contact from Marstons Group - please let me know and I will chase them on your behalf.

Kind Regards.

Mrs Jane Williams
Enforcement Team Leader - CENS

At least that's something. Keep us informed, please.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Just received a reply for one of my emails... I have posted it below for you to view...

Good Morning,

Just to confirm that I am in recept of your e-mail which was sent to us yesterday (17th March 2013 at 12.23). I have seen on your account that you have spoken with the Team Leader in Essex today regarding your concerns.

I can confirm that I have forwarded your e-mail to Marstons Group for them to deal with - I have asked them to deal with this as a priority matter and I have also asked them to confirm to me that A Chapman has an up to date Bailiffs Certificate - to which I am still awaiting a reply.

If you do not receive any contact from Marstons Group - please let me know and I will chase them on your behalf.

Kind Regards.

Mrs Jane Williams
Enforcement Team Leader - CENS

Just hope marstons don't drag heir heels

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

The point I am trying to make(and failing obviously)is that it does no mater that the piece of paper presented to he debtor was manufactured by My Disney or not, as long as they do not specifically say it is he actual warrant. They do not have to have the actual warrant in their possession.

If however the debtor asks to see the actual warrant that may be a different matter, I am suggesting(tentatively) that in order to abide by the strict rule of law the enforcement would have to be suspended until this was done.

See the bit I have highlighted in bold type? They don't have to say it is the actual warrant. Their actions alone would be sufficient if the alleged debtor was lead to believe Marston's Disney Store warrant had legal weight or was a genuine court warrant having legal authority. I would agree with your point that a bailiff would be very foolish indeed to continue with enforcement, regardless, when the alleged debtor has asked to see the court warrant. TBH, this is something that needs pursuing with HMCTS High Command.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

See the bit I have highlighted in bold type? They don't have to say it is the actual warrant. Their actions alone would be sufficient if the alleged debtor was lead to believe Marston's Disney Store warrant had legal weight or was a genuine court warrant having legal authority. I would agree with your point that a bailiff would be very foolish indeed to continue with enforcement, regardless, when the alleged debtor has asked to see the court warrant. TBH, this is something that needs pursuing with HMCTS High Command.

I understand what you are saying, but the bailiff has no need to fool the debtor into thinking the document is the warrant, because he does not need to present it anyway, at least he does not need to have it on him.

This is something that needs addressing you are right, the debtor should have the opportunity to see that the warrant is correct and active when it is enforced, unfortunately the regulations have created a loophole that says the bailiff can enforce without having it on their person.

Also i notice from various sources that many say the clamping order is "automatically" issued together with the warrant for fine offences under the HMCS. I haven't seen any official confirmation of this, and it would be nice to see if it is true or not.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I understand what you are saying, but the bailiff has no need to fool the debtor into thinking the document is the warrant, because he does not need to present it anyway, at least he does not need to have it on him.

This is something that needs addressing you are right, the debtor should have the opportunity to see that the warrant is correct and active when it is enforced, unfortunately the regulations have created a loophole that says the bailiff can enforce without having it on their person.

Also i notice from various sources that many say the clamping order is "automatically" issued together with the warrant for fine offences under the HMCS. I haven't seen any official confirmation of this, and it would be nice to see if it is true or not.

Could you list these sources, please? A Distress Warrant and a Clamping Order are entirely separate documents.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I have also asked them to confirm to me that A Chapman has an up to date Bailiffs Certificate - to which I am still awaiting a reply.

Mrs Jane Williams
Enforcement Team Leader - CENS

Why is she asking Marstons to confirm something that should be known to the Ministry of Injustice?

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

A Distress Warrant and a Clamping Order are entirely separate documents BB[/QUOTE]

Yes i know they are, however the opinion i have seen(post 196) and over the road seem to indicate that both are issued concurrently.

I have not seen documented proof of the practice other than anecdotal evidence I believer he OP had a similar reply from the court.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

A Distress Warrant and a Clamping Order are entirely separate documents BB

Yes i know they are, however the opinion i have seen(post 196) and over the road seem to indicate that both are issued concurrently.

I have not seen documented proof of the practice other than anecdotal evidence I believer he OP had a similar reply from the court.[/QUOTE]

What has been coming up, as of late, are court staff claiming that the Distress Warrant entitles the bailiff to clamp a vehicle. It doesn't. That's what a Clamping Order does. How would a bailiff know if the fine defaulter had a motor vehicle until the bailiff had attended the fine defaulter's home? On the other hand, if it was a motoring fine, then issuing a Clamping Order at the same time as a Distress Warrant would make sense. However, Marstons have a habit of preventing people from paying fines.

[CleverClogs]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Marstons have a habit of preventing people from paying fines.

As, indeed, they have done in this case.

What crime(s) might they have committed thereby?

[kim481]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Just as I thought, a distress warrant does not automatically mean my car can be clamped but when I contact the courts, I get told that they do not know where I get this information from and he had every right to do it. Not getting anywhere with this one and the courts unfortunately.