Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Kim,

I'm going to send you a PM.

Kim, follow the advice and content of bluebottle's pm, this baiiff, Marstons and HMCS could well be in the carp.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Equita?

It is quite possible the government would like to put all their eggs in the Crapita family basket, and appoint Equita, or even Ross 'n Robbers

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Any warrant issued by a criminal court must be produced on demand. The only exception I know of is in the case of arrest warrants issued for non-appearance before a magistrates court, aka Bench Warrants, as these go straight onto the Wanted/Missing Persons Index on the Police National Computer and the police can check at any time, simply by radioing through to their control room and asking if a person is wanted.

As to whether a private-sector bailiff enforcing a Distress Warrant issued by a magistrates court could get away with a Mickey Mouse warrant they've knocked up on Microsoft Word, I very much doubt it. IMHO, an alleged debtor would be within their rights to ask to see any alleged warrant before entering into any dialogue with any bailiff claiming to be acting on behalf of HMCTS. If the warrant is not an exact copy of the actual warrant as issued by the court, bearing the Royal Crest, I would be tempted to tell the bailiff to take a hike.

The way he SI is worded seems to say that the bailiff can legally enforce a warrant without having it in his possession, but if asked he must make it available for inspection.
The question I am asking is, would the debtor have the right to tell him to "sling his hook" until he saw the document in that case.

In other words it is down to the debtor, if he says nothing then the bailiff can legally continue the enforcement, however if he asks to see the original the enforcement cannot continue until he does.

[kim481]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I am today going to make some telephone calls to verify some information and hopefully get some answers.

Once I have any updates I will update on here.

I am taking thew advice of bluebottle and will be in contact with him shortly.

Thanks, kim

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I am today going to make some telephone calls to verify some information and hopefully get some answers.

Once I have any updates I will update on here.

I am taking thew advice of bluebottle and will be in contact with him shortly.

Thanks, kim

Bluebottle will help you with what you need to do, one thing is certain, marstons and HMCS have some questions to answer, and it doesn't look good for them.

[kim481]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

I have just been on the phone to the magistrates court and they are adamant that the bailiff had the authority to clamp my car with the distress warrant he has and does not need a separate clamping order! I suspected they would say this.

As for my vulnerability as a single parent I need to put it in writing to Marstons as they have a welfare team who assess this.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

The way he SI is worded seems to say that the bailiff can legally enforce a warrant without having it in his possession, but if asked he must make it available for inspection.
The question I am asking is, would the debtor have the right to tell him to "sling his hook" until he saw the document in that case.

In other words it is down to the debtor, if he says nothing then the bailiff can legally continue the enforcement, however if he asks to see the original the enforcement cannot continue until he does.

Can you indicate the clause number that refers to this, please?

As far as the Distress Warrants themselves are concerned, I spoke to HMCTS about this some months ago. They are produced electronically and then emailed to a contractor's offices to be printed off. The warrant Marstons, etc., should produce to an alleged fine defaulter should be the warrant, as emailed to them by the court, not the Mickey Mouse efforts Marstons try to con people with.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Can you indicate the clause number that refers to this, please?

As far as the Distress Warrants themselves are concerned, I spoke to HMCTS about this some months ago. They are produced electronically and then emailed to a contractor's offices to be printed off. The warrant Marstons, etc., should produce to an alleged fine defaulter should be the warrant, as emailed to them by the court, not the Mickey Mouse efforts Marstons try to con people with.

In that case ia PDF or whatever should be printed off "As Is" and not edited or re made in Word by marstons, to suit them. Any alteration could therefore be fraudulent or at worse tantamount to a treasonous act, as they seek to usurp Crown Authority with their own Walt Disney warrants.

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

In that case ia PDF or whatever should be printed off "As Is" and not edited or re made in Word by marstons, to suit them. Any alteration could therefore be fraudulent or at worse tantamount to a treasonous act, as they seek to usurp Crown Authority with their own Walt Disney warrants.

You are correct that the warrant must be printed off "as is". Any alteration to a warrant that is not authorised by a court could have the effect of rendering a warrant invalid and unenforceable. You are probably correct about Marstons' Walt Disney warrants being fraudulent and there may well be an offence or offences under the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act by them doing so as well.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Can you indicate the clause number that refers to this, please?

As far as the Distress Warrants themselves are concerned, I spoke to HMCTS about this some months ago. They are produced electronically and then emailed to a contractor's offices to be printed off. The warrant Marstons, etc., should produce to an alleged fine defaulter should be the warrant, as emailed to them by the court, not the Mickey Mouse efforts Marstons try to con people with.

Yes its section 52.8, 2 (c) criminal procedure rules part 52(Enforcement of fines)

The person must show the warrant if that person has it.

If the defendant asks he must arrange for the debtor to see the warrant if he does not have it.(sic)

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Yes its section 52.8, 2 (c) criminal procedure rules part 52(Enforcement of fines)

The person must show the warrant if that person has it.

If the defendant asks he must arrange for the debtor to see the warrant if he does not have it.(sic)

Would Marstons have complied if the produce their Walt Disney edit rather than the original as sent though?

[bluebottle]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Yes its section 52.8, 2 (c) criminal procedure rules part 52(Enforcement of fines)

The person must show the warrant if that person has it.

If the defendant asks he must arrange for the debtor to see the warrant if he does not have it.(sic)

Many thanks for that.

Whilst the provision you have highlighted is open to interpretation, for practical reasons, any certificated bailiff who turned up on someone's doorstep, claiming to be enforcing a fine on behalf of HMCTS and could not produce a copy of the actual court warrant there and then would be on a sticky wicket.

The reason I say this is twofold -

a. If the police were to turn up and those officers who attended were switched on and asked to see written authority in the form of the court warrant, which the bailiff could not produce, the bailiff would be swiftly sent on their way on the toe of a police officer's boot;
b. The bailiff, potentially, exposes themselves to accusations of an offence of Attempted Burglary Artifice (aka Distraction Burglary).

TBH, any bailiff who turns up without a copy of the actual court warrant in their possession is asking for trouble and an alleged fine defaulter would, IMHO, be within their rights to refuse to deal with the bailiff until such time as they produce a copy of the actual court warrant to prove they did, in fact, have authority to act on behalf of the court they were claiming to be acting for.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Would Marstons have complied if the produce their Walt Disney edit rather than the original as sent though?

It is all very woolly.

It seems to me that the debtor would have to ask to see the actual warrant, and if the bailiff did not comply he could not continue until he did, so in theory any levy made without compliance would be unlawful. IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES

However if the debtor did not ask to see the actual warrant, and the bailiff continued with he levy, it would be perfectly legal.

[bizzybob]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

It is all very woolly.

It seems to me that the debtor would have to ask to see the actual warrant, and if the bailiff did not comply he could not continue until he did, so in theory any levy made without compliance would be unlawful. IN THESE CIRCUMSTANCES

However if the debtor did not ask to see the actual warrant, and the bailiff continued with he levy, it would be perfectly legal.

Knowing marstons MO, though even if a debtor asked to see the warrant, and the bailiff refused or didn't comply, he would doubtless carry on and enforce whatever, mumbling about the right of entry, mumble DCVA mumble, pay up and at no point would the debtor see any sign of a warrant at that time. This needs testing in court.

[gravytrain]

Re: Marston bailiff clamped my car!!

Knowing marstons MO, though even if a debtor asked to see the warrant, and the bailiff refused or didn't comply, he would doubtless carry on and enforce whatever, mumbling about the right of entry, mumble DCVA mumble, pay up and at no point would the debtor see any sign of a warrant at that time. This needs testing in court.

Yes this is the way that bailiffs have always operated, you have to be quite a strong person to quote regulations to a six foo 18 stone bailiff who says he is going to take your goods. Which is why of course the whole bailiff industry is unfair and should be confined to the scrapheap along with flogging and debtors prison.