Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

[bluebottle]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

Here's the WoE ... you can see the dates highlighted in red and green

Thank you for posting that up, Deemi. TBH, I would certainly query the dates you have highlighted with Northampton TEC. Having applied for and executed warrants myself in the past, I hope you understand why I have reservations about the WoE.

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

TBH, I would certainly query the dates you have highlighted with Northampton TEC.

I would follow the suit.

Moreover, according to the information JBW provided after subject to access request the attendance to levi-1 and attendance to removal took place on the same date costing me nearly £300 (without my knowledge).

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

After getting tips from bluebottle and labman and browsing other consumer right forums, I have submitted TE7 and TE9 statements besides sending a letter to the LBBD authorities about questionable conduct of their appointed enforcement agent JBW. Finger crossed ... will update the forum once got response either from TEC or LBBD

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

Got reply from the council.

My email/letter was:

by Post & Email


Your Ref: XXXXXXX


Dear Mr Cobbinah,


Subject: Extortionate fee demands from your agent



I am writing with regard to the abovementioned PCN and prima facie questionable conduct of your appointed enforcement agents JBW, who are charging me a total of £573.04. I have attached a copy of the breakdown of their fees.

I do not believe these fees are legitimately charged as prescribed by The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Regulations. I would particularly invite your attention to their multiple entries of attendance on the same date.

I would therefore be grateful if you could confirm whether or not you believe them to be fair and honest. If they are not, I would request that the debt be recalled to the council, and all fees removed.

Moreover, I believe my case did not fall under the category of “Won’t Pay” debtors that it would have warranted appointment of the bailiffs. I had sent an email to the LBBD’s Parking Services in January 2012 explaining that why I could not pay the penalty (please see attached copy of the email); and I got an automated response which stated “The PCN will be put on hold at the current status and held at the charge applicable at the time of this enquiry”.

But I did not receive any further correspondence from the council’s department concerned.

Under the council’s ‘Good Practice Principles’ stated in its Debt Management Policy, I would have been considered a “Can’t Pay” debtor rather than subjected to the bailiffs’ action.

I look forward to receiving your written confirmation one way or another regarding legality of the fees charged by JBW. I would also be grateful if you would confirm that the council is recalling the debt, and instructing the enforcement agents to cease pursuing this account.



Yours sincerely,

xxxxxxx

Reply from Mr Cobbinah

Dear Mr xyz,

I am writing in response to your email of regarding the above Parking contravention Notice. You have stated that you believe the fees and charges levied by out appointed bailiffs are extortionate. You have also noted that you sent an email to Parking Services in January 2012 but did not receive a response. You have also mentioned that your case falls under the category of ‘Can’t Pay’ and not ‘Won’t Pay’. Lastly, you have requested that that the council to recall the debt and instruct out bailiffs to cease enforcement .

I have checked your case file and can confirm that JBW Group have levied charges and fees in accordance with legislation; I therefore agree that they have indeed behaved in a fair and honest manner.

You made a representation against this PCN which was rejected in October 2011. In the rejection notice you were advised of your next stage of appeal should you wish to take it further. You were advised to make an appeal to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service within 28 days of the notice. Unfortunately you did not file an appeal. When you sent an email to Parking Services on the 12th of January you were out of time and they were not obliged to respond to your email.

Unfortunately there are no categories of ‘won’t pay’ or ‘can’t pay’ when recovering Parking fines. I confirm that this debt would not be recalled from the bailiffs and advise that you contact JBW to arrange payment to avoid further fees and charges. If you wish this case to be reviewed please file an Out of Time statutory declaration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton.

If you have any further queries please contact me.


Yours sincerely,


Charles Cobbinah | Revenue Officer | Revenue Services

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

Dear Mr xyz,

I am writing in response to your email of regarding the above Parking contravention Notice. You have stated that you believe the fees and charges levied by out appointed bailiffs are extortionate. You have also noted that you sent an email to Parking Services in January 2012 but did not receive a response. You have also mentioned that your case falls under the category of ‘Can’t Pay’ and not ‘Won’t Pay’. Lastly, you have requested that that the council to recall the debt and instruct out bailiffs to cease enforcement .

I have checked your case file and can confirm that JBW Group have levied charges and fees in accordance with legislation; I therefore agree that they have indeed behaved in a fair and honest manner.

You made a representation against this PCN which was rejected in October 2011. In the rejection notice you were advised of your next stage of appeal should you wish to take it further. You were advised to make an appeal to the Parking and Traffic Appeals Service within 28 days of the notice. Unfortunately you did not file an appeal. When you sent an email to Parking Services on the 12th of January you were out of time and they were not obliged to respond to your email.

Unfortunately there are no categories of ‘won’t pay’ or ‘can’t pay’ when recovering Parking fines. I confirm that this debt would not be recalled from the bailiffs and advise that you contact JBW to arrange payment to avoid further fees and charges. If you wish this case to be reviewed please file an Out of Time statutory declaration with the Traffic Enforcement Centre at Northampton.

If you have any further queries please contact me.


Yours sincerely,


Charles Cobbinah | Revenue Officer | Revenue Services

I've just emailed him attaching the council's relevant policy document for his knowledge

Dear Mr Cobbinah,

Thanks for your email. You said there are no categories of "Won't Pay" or "Can't Pay" when recovering parking fines. I disagree with you and have attached an LBBD document for your perusal. The document clearly states "The policy applies to all sums owing to the council in relation to the parking debt and has been developed to ensure a consistent approach to the management of debts across the council".

I also dispute your claim that JBW behaved in a fair and honest manner. I would like to raise my complaint to the next level with the council, so please help guide me in this regard.

Kind regards,

xxxxxxx

[labman]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

Following the response in post 19, if you have chapter and verse proof that the charges are indeed unfair and inaccurate, you need to write to the CEO of the council quoting aforementioned chapter and verse, reminding him of the council's vicarious liability with their appointed enforcement agents, and stating that the Revenues Officer is condoning the charging of unlawful fees, thus leaving the council open to litigation.

Thus you would like ALL unfair charges refunded, the debt removed from the bailiffs back to the council, and compensation for the distress suffered by yourself and your family over this incident. Once all this is taken into account you will be happy to pay the fine. It may be that a suitable level of compensation would take you back to the cost of the original fine which you can then pay.

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

Following the response in post 19, if you have chapter and verse proof that the charges are indeed unfair and inaccurate, you need to write to the CEO of the council quoting aforementioned chapter and verse, reminding him of the council's vicarious liability with their appointed enforcement agents, and stating that the Revenues Officer is condoning the charging of unlawful fees, thus leaving the council open to litigation.

Following is an example of bailiff's fees for recovering (copied from another informed forum on bailiff issues). Could you please throw some light on authenticity of their assertions?

Example bailiff's fees for recovering a London PCN.


Regulation 9 PCNs are typically £130 reduced to £65 if paid within 14 days. Less serious offences are £80 reduced to £40 if paid within 14 days. Regulation 10 PCNs issued by camera operators are the same but reduced if paid within 21 days,
In this example the Penalty Charge Notice is £130.



Original PCN = £130
If paid within 14 days - £80
if applicable - Charge Certificate - increases the full PCN by 50% - add £65 total PCN is now £195
Court Fee - add £5 - Execution Warant amount now payable - £200
Bailiffs statutory letter fee £11.20 + VAT total £13.44 (assuming you received one) Total now payable at letter stage is £213.44
Visit 1.

First bailiffs visit: Total sum demanded £213.44. Statutory visit fee 28% of the PCN amount £54.60 + VAT total £65.52. You were out when the bailiff called therefore no levy is made on your goods so the fee is £0.00.
Total sum due remains £213.44


The bailiff has to return for another visit. total sum demanded: £213.44
You were in when the bailiff called but was unable to levy on your goods and no money recovered. Total sum due remains £213.44


The bailiff returns for the the third and final visit, you pay the sum £213.44 including the 28% fee for the sums recovered and no levy is made. The case is closed.


Bailiffs may try and charge the 28% fee on the original PCN AND the previous visit fee regardless of any money being recovered. This practice is incorrect because the regulations only provide for 28% on the original PCN and not the previous visit fees for recovering money that is not recovered.

There are no "van fees" because this is for 'attending with a view to remove goods', but without a valid levy over the goods there are no goods to remove. The van fee is £0.00. Paragraph 62 of complaint numbers 95A01890 and 95A04826 against London Borough of Ealing.



If you do not allow a bailiff levy your goods then the most you owe the bailiff on his first visit is £213.44

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

After a wait of four days, I today contacted TEC Bulk Centre to know the fate of my Statutory Declaration (TE9) and application to file statement out of time (Te7). I am told that the court has sought report from the local authority concerned on my application/complaint and the LA can take up to five weeks to reply, meanwhile the bailiff's action has been put on hold. The court will let me know with seven days of its receiving reply from the local authority. In the reason column of the TE7 form I'd stated:

I request the honourable court to allow me to submit a statement outside the given time for the sake of justice. The learned court had authorised the London Borough of Barking and Degenham to issue Warrant of Execution for the recovery of £202.00. The local authority entrusted the task to a private bailiff firm JBW Group, which has now been demanding extortionate fees (£371.04) in addition to the original fine. It may be pertinent to mention here that I came to know about bailiffs’ role in the matter only when I received a letter from JBW, detailing fees of the visits of its bailiffs allegedly made to my place. Prior to that neither I received any letter from them nor any bailiff turned up to my door. Their conduct is, prima facie, flagrant violation of the Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Regulations. I want to lodge a complaint against their objectionable conduct with the local authority concerned and therefore request the court to at least suspend, if it does not revoke the WoE, until the outcome of my complaint. I would request the honourable court to entertain my request employing its discretionary powers to allow me a fair chance to contest the unjustified bailiff charges without the fear of them taking away my belongings.

When asked whether I need to do anything while the court is waiting for reply from the local authority, the TEC advisor on telephone said 'NO'.

But, I think I must now formally lodge a complaint with the council. Any thoughts???

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

I've just emailed him attaching the council's relevant policy document for his knowledge

Dear Mr Cobbinah,

Thanks for your email. You said there are no categories of "Won't Pay" or "Can't Pay" when recovering parking fines. I disagree with you and have attached an LBBD document for your perusal. The document clearly states "The policy applies to all sums owing to the council in relation to the parking debt and has been developed to ensure a consistent approach to the management of debts across the council".

I also dispute your claim that JBW behaved in a fair and honest manner. I would like to raise my complaint to the next level with the council, so please help guide me in this regard.

Kind regards,

xxxxxxx

The LBBD official's reply to my email above was:

Dear Mr XYZ,

Please send your complaint marked as ‘Corporate Complaint’ to;

The Manager
Parking Services
PO Box 500
Town Hall
1 Town Square
Barking
IG11 7LU

Yours sincerely,

Charles Cobbinah | Revenue Officer | Revenue Services

[ploddertom]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

I don't know whether it still happens but not so long some of the London Boroughs were letting JBW respond to the Out of Times & refused them all.

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

I don't know whether it still happens but not so long some of the London Boroughs were letting JBW respond to the Out of Times & refused them all.

That's why I want to lodge a formal and robust complaint with the local authority to not give them, council and its agent, free hand to manipulate the court

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

I got following letter from LBBD with reference to my out of time witness statement/statutory declaration. In the letter, they say they have enclosed a copy of their opposition to my application to TEC but there enclosed nothing with the letter ... LBBD is really a deceptive body.

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

Meanwhile, I have lodged a formal complaint with the LBBD. Here's its text:

Corporate Complaint
The Manager
Parking Services
PO Box 500, Town Hall
1 Town Square, Barking
IG11 7LU

Dated: 10/12/12

Dear Sir/Madam,

Your Ref: PCN No. BZ123457890

It gives me no pleasure to lodge a formal complaint with regard to the above PCN.

On 27^th of November 2012, I wrote (copy of the letter/email enclosed) to your Revenue Officer Mr Charles Cobbinah asking for confirmation of fees which I have been charged by your appointed enforcement agents JBW. I also requested that should the fees be considered unfair, my account be recalled to your council, all fees cancelled and your appointed enforcement agents informed not to pursue the account any further.

I received his reply (copy enclosed) the same day which clearly states he believes the fees charged are lawful and correct.

Please may I point out that under your council’s vicarious liability for its appointed enforcement agents, your Revenue Officer is leaving you open to serious litigation. The fees charged are clearly unlawful, and in direct contravention of The Enforcement of Road Traffic Debts Regulations (amended 2003).

I have attached breakdown of the fees your appointed agent JBW is demanding. It may be pertinent to mention here that I could only obtain the fee breakdown after making a ‘Subject Access Request’ to JBW. I would again invite attention of the council authorities to the multiple entries of attendance JBW is claiming to have made on 2^nd of May 2012.

How can your appointed agent charge £175 (+VAT) for attendance to remove goods when they have made no valid levy on goods to be removed? Can the council please explain why the charges for attendance to levy 1 and 2 are different? And what head is ‘distress is withdrawn or no sale takes place’ for which JBW is charging £5 (+VAT)?

Moreover, I had also pleaded with Mr Cobbinah that my case did not fall under the category of “Won’t Pay” debtors that, under the council’s Good Practice Principles stated in its Debt Management Policy, it would have warranted appointment of the bailiffs. But your Revenue Officer replied “Unfortunately there are no categories of ‘won’t pay’ or ‘can’t pay’ when recovering Parking fines”. For his kind perusal, I have sent him the relevant documents which are downloadable from the council’s website.

It would appear not only that one of your senior members of staff has little knowledge of the relevant legislation and policies involved in his job (an issue I am sure the council will want to address), but also that he is condoning quite clearly, the unlawful application of fees. The vicarious liability between yourself and your appointed enforcement agents makes this a very serious issue indeed for you. There are a number of avenues that could be pursued should the legal proceedings be instigated.

I would be grateful if you would recall this debt to the council with immediate effect and confirm that you have instructed your appointed enforcement agents to cease pursuing this account, again with immediate effect.

Please rest assured I have no intention of reneging on my responsibility to pay this debt, but it is only fair, given the circumstances, that I should be able to do so free of any unlawful activities by your staff or your appointed enforcement agents.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Yours faithfully,

[Deemi]

Re: Is their any respite from bailiffs' tactics and their extortionate fees???

But, interestingly the local authority didn't answer in its reply the question of its agent JBW fees which I have raised in my application to the TEC.