Issue with JBW Baliff

[bluebottle]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

I would let these muppets know, in no uncertain terms, that you have the right and are prepared to have their fees formally scrutinised by a County Court. I would also put them on notice that where the court finds overcharging has taken place, it has the power to report the matter to the court that issued a bailiff's certificate with a view to examination of the bailiff's fitness to continue to hold a bailiff certificate. What these two bailiffs did was, IMHO, totally out of order.

JBW have not provided a proper breakdown of fees and have yet to prove they have acted lawfully. They cannot apply multiple fees as they claim they can.

[thfc01]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Ok I have received a break down of fees as requested dated the 13/11/12.

Reference A
Thank you for your recent correspondence, please find below a fee and the reason for the fee
Bailif A attended June 29th 2012 at 06:40, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendance to levy fee.
Bailiff B attended on August 28th 2012, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendance to remove fee and a levy fee.
Debt £202.00
B. For Levying distress :Attendance to levy 1 £56.73, VAT £11.35 29th June 2012
Levy fee £53.54, vat £10.71 date 28th August 2012
C. For removal of goods for purposes of sale or attending to remove goods where no goods are removed. ATR fee £175.00. Vat £35.00 28th August 2012
preparing and sending letter £11.20, vat £2.24 19th June 2012
Other expenses incurred. Credit card fee £3.60, vat £0.72
debit card fee £1.00, vat £0.20 28th August 2012. Total £503.07, vat £60.22 £563.29


Reference B
Bailiff C attended on June 20th 2012 at 08:44, the fees that were applied at this time wee an Attendance to levy fee.
Bailiff A attended on June 29th 2012 at 06:40, the fees that were applied were an Attendance to levy fee
Debt £187
B. for Levying distress : Attendance to levy 1 £55.50, vat £11.10 20th June 2012. Attendance to levy 2 £58.95 vat £11.79 29th June 2012.
For preparing and sending a letter £11.20, vat £2.24 12th June 2012.
Other expenses incurred. Debit card fee £0.50 vat £0.10 20th August 2012. Total £313.15 vat £25.23 £338.38

Reference C
Bailiff A attended on June 29th 2012 at 06:40, the fees that were applied at this time were a attendance to levy fee
Debt £202.00
B. for levying distress, attendance to levy 1 £56.73, vat £11.35 29th June 2012
Letter fee £11.20 vat £2.24 19th June 2012 Total £69.93 vat £13.59 £283.52


Reference D
Bailiff D attended October 5th 2012 at 12:44, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendace to levy fee.
Bailiff A attended October 1th 2012 at 09:48, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendance to levy fee.
Debt £202.00
A. For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (whether the levy is made or not) ATL fee £56.73 vat £11.35 5th October 2012. ATL fee £59.85 vat £11.97
Letter fee £11.20 vat £2.24
Total £329.78 vat £25.56 £355.34


Sorry if this is long winded. As you can see when Bailiff A attended on June 29th they have charged a levy for each PCN. Also on August 28th 2012 my car was clamped in a different area, basically my car was spotted by one of their vans with the APR camera, not at my house so can they really charge a levy fee and a removal fee as well? What goods could they remove if my car is clamped away from my home address? Also they have not answered the question of what legislation they have followed to come to these amounts or put that fees comply with the law

[bluebottle]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

I'm going to need to speak to you about this, but not tonight. From what I can see, some of these fees are not in accordance with legislation. It is possible you may have to submit JBW's fees for Formal Determination. They certainly cannot charge Attendance to Levy and Attendance to Remove fees on the same occasion. I have doubts about the legality of JBW's clamping of your car. There was a lengthy debate about this on CAG and the consensus was that JBW's actions were of "questionable legality".

[Deemi]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

I'm going to need to speak to you about this, but not tonight. From what I can see, some of these fees are not in accordance with legislation. It is possible you may have to submit JBW's fees for Formal Determination. They certainly cannot charge Attendance to Levy and Attendance to Remove fees on the same occasion. I have doubts about the legality of JBW's clamping of your car. There was a lengthy debate about this on CAG and the consensus was that JBW's actions were of "questionable legality".

Hi Bluebottle,

I am also facing bullying and what I believed overcharging from JBW over an unpaid PCN (£130) issued by the London Borough of Barking and Degenham. The notice was issued in September last year for 'failing to comply with a restriction on vehicles entering a pedestrian zone'. I challenged the notice but the LBBD rejected it. Later, the penalty soared to £195 while I was finding ways how to effectively challenge the notice as contravention took place during wee hours and the warning signs were not displayed prominently.

Anyway, the council sent me a payment notice of £202 (including £7 court registration fee) in January this year. Frankly speaking, I didn't have the money to pay and get rid of the situation. LBBD also turned down my request for payment in installments over the phone. At this, I resigned to the fate.

In May, I found a hand-delivered letter among my post. That was an unsigned 'Notice of Attendance' from JBW asking to pay £573.04 immediately to avoid additional costs. The sum included an amount of £499.84 stated as 'Balance before today's visit'. I didn't receive any letter from them before, posted or hand-delivered. I wrote them an email asking for details of the matter, as there was no reference to the original LBBD notice, and breakdown of the amount they were demanding.

I got no response from JBW, meanwhile I received a 'Notice of Removal' from them. A week later, I emailed and posted a 'Subject Access Request' to them along with a cheque of £10. This time I got a reply from them near the end of statutory 40 days response period in June. The breakdown of £573.04 they provided was: Debt, £202.00; Letter Fee, £11.20 + 2.24 (VAT); Attendance to levy 1, £57.00 + £11.40 (VAT); Attendance to levy 2, £61.00 + £12.20 (VAT); Attendance to remove, £175.00 + £35.00 (VAT); and Closing Fee, £5 + £1 (VAT). That means for a recovery of £202 debt they are charging £371.04. All their 'hush hush' visits took place within a week without my knowledge and billed for a mind boggling sum.

I didn't make any contact with them hoping against hope that they might get lost but after a gap of five months they now have sent 'Final Notice' demanding £573.04 and if they do not hear from me they will send an enforcement officer to attend my property. The notice also says that my debt will be uploaded to their ANPR database which according to JBW highlights any vehicles that are registered to me to their ANPR fleet. To my knowledge APNR (Automatic Number Plate Recognition) technology can only be used by the police or official security agencies, and even then there are some privacy issues raised about its usage. If I am right then how JBW can threaten somebody under wrong premise?

Bluebottle I need your help to sort out the menace of JBW. I didn't open a new topic/thread because this thread is quite identical to that of mine.

[Deemi]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Ok I have received a break down of fees as requested dated the 13/11/12.

Reference A
Thank you for your recent correspondence, please find below a fee and the reason for the fee
Bailif A attended June 29th 2012 at 06:40, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendance to levy fee.
Bailiff B attended on August 28th 2012, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendance to remove fee and a levy fee.
Debt £202.00
B. For Levying distress :Attendance to levy 1 £56.73, VAT £11.35 29th June 2012
Levy fee £53.54, vat £10.71 date 28th August 2012
C. For removal of goods for purposes of sale or attending to remove goods where no goods are removed. ATR fee £175.00. Vat £35.00 28th August 2012
preparing and sending letter £11.20, vat £2.24 19th June 2012
Other expenses incurred. Credit card fee £3.60, vat £0.72
debit card fee £1.00, vat £0.20 28th August 2012. Total £503.07, vat £60.22 £563.29


Reference B
Bailiff C attended on June 20th 2012 at 08:44, the fees that were applied at this time wee an Attendance to levy fee.
Bailiff A attended on June 29th 2012 at 06:40, the fees that were applied were an Attendance to levy fee
Debt £187
B. for Levying distress : Attendance to levy 1 £55.50, vat £11.10 20th June 2012. Attendance to levy 2 £58.95 vat £11.79 29th June 2012.
For preparing and sending a letter £11.20, vat £2.24 12th June 2012.
Other expenses incurred. Debit card fee £0.50 vat £0.10 20th August 2012. Total £313.15 vat £25.23 £338.38

Reference C
Bailiff A attended on June 29th 2012 at 06:40, the fees that were applied at this time were a attendance to levy fee
Debt £202.00
B. for levying distress, attendance to levy 1 £56.73, vat £11.35 29th June 2012
Letter fee £11.20 vat £2.24 19th June 2012 Total £69.93 vat £13.59 £283.52


Reference D
Bailiff D attended October 5th 2012 at 12:44, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendace to levy fee.
Bailiff A attended October 1th 2012 at 09:48, the fees that were applied at this time were an attendance to levy fee.
Debt £202.00
A. For making a visit to premises with a view to levying distress (whether the levy is made or not) ATL fee £56.73 vat £11.35 5th October 2012. ATL fee £59.85 vat £11.97
Letter fee £11.20 vat £2.24
Total £329.78 vat £25.56 £355.34


Sorry if this is long winded. As you can see when Bailiff A attended on June 29th they have charged a levy for each PCN. Also on August 28th 2012 my car was clamped in a different area, basically my car was spotted by one of their vans with the APR camera, not at my house so can they really charge a levy fee and a removal fee as well? What goods could they remove if my car is clamped away from my home address? Also they have not answered the question of what legislation they have followed to come to these amounts or put that fees comply with the law

In my case JBW has also listed 'Attendance to levy 1' and 'Attendance to remove' on the same date

[bluebottle]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

As you will have noted, Deemi, that is not permitted. In order to remove, you have to first have a valid and legitimate levy and you cannot remove immediately unless a court has ordered otherwise and the bailiff has a copy of such order with them. However, a lot of bailiffs don't. One thing you need to know about certificated bailiffs... THEY LIE!

Also, it has come to light that Barking Mad Council (LB of Barking & Dagenham) do not issue warrants. It also appears that Barking Mad Council may not have followed proper procedures as regards increasing the PCN amount whilst you were going through the challenge process.

I would be inclined to ask your neighbours if they saw any of JBW's bailiffs calling at your home on the dates JBW are claiming. They normally wear light blue polo shirts with the JBW logo on the left breast. If your neighbours confirm they did not see any JBW bailiffs calling at your home, then JBW are going to have to produce proof that they did. It is not for you to prove they did not.

[bluebottle]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Thfc01,

Could you post up the dates on the letters JBW are claiming fees for and how many letters you actually received, please? It looks very much to me that they are trying to claim a Letter Fee for each PCN and are covering a number of the PCNs in one letter. That is not permitted. I have a book on Bailiff Law on order and will check the position as regards the use of ANPR and clamping your vehicle on a public highway or away from your address once I receive it. If you changed address after any of the PCNs were issued, you need to check the address that is on the individual warrants JBW claim to have. If it is an old address and JBW have either not informed LB of Hackney and the warrant has been cancelled and then reissued with the new address or JBW have engaged in "Data Cleansing", which is illegal, this may bring into question the validity of the warrants and lawfulness of JBW's actions.

[thfc01]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Bluebottle.
Breakdown of fees and charges JBW have put different dates to when letters were actually received by me.

First letter received June 20th 2012 Hand posted. Only one reference number quoted. JBW have put date as 12/06/12
Second letter received June 29th 2012 Hand posted. Four reference numbers quoted. JBW have put date as 19/06/12
Third letter received 5th May 2012 sent through normal Post.Four reference numbers quoted. JBW put date as 19/06/12

I have not changed address bluebottle
Again, thanks for your help so far. When would be best time to contact you as I am currently at work

[ploddertom]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Is it possible you scan these and upload - after removing personal info?

[thfc01]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Ploddertom I don't have a scanner, I think one of my friends may have one. I will see if I can borrow one and upload tonight.

[bluebottle]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Bluebottle.
Breakdown of fees and charges JBW have put different dates to when letters were actually received by me.

First letter received June 20th 2012 Hand posted. Only one reference number quoted. JBW have put date as 12/06/12
Second letter received June 29th 2012 Hand posted. Four reference numbers quoted. JBW have put date as 19/06/12
Third letter received 5th May 2012 sent through normal Post.Four reference numbers quoted. JBW put date as 19/06/12

I have not changed address bluebottle
Again, thanks for your help so far. When would be best time to contact you as I am currently at work

Will send you a PM.

[Deemi]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Bluebottle thanks for your reply. I could ask one of my neighbours and he had no recollection of seeing someone in the uniform you described. Moreover, I work from home and I was at home during the dates JBW is claiming its bailiff paid visits. Neither I hear any knocking at the door nor someone rang the bell. But the question now is how to stop/suspend their action before making them and the borough to rationalise their charges?

[thfc01]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Thanks for help again bluebottle. Just a quick update. JBW called me today saying they are giving me a final opportunity to pay the outstanding balance or make a payment arrangement. I said I will not be making any payment, as according to advise I have been given charges are not lawful. Lady I spoke to said they cant keep the case on hold and bailiff will be out shortly, further fees will be added and goods removed. Advised her that I will not be letting a bailiff in and that my mother has a signed contents letter in front of solicitor to prove she owns everything in the property. She said fine give the letter to bailiff when he attends so he can ascertain what goods he can take. I repeated that he cannot take anything as I will not be letting him in and as I just told you I have signed contents letter so he cant take nothing. She said fine discuss it with bailiff when he comes out, I said nothing to discuss and is there anything else I can help you with. I said no and she hanged up the phone

[thfc01]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

Update: My car was clamped yesterday by JBW outside of my sisters house. Cut a long story short. Bailiff showed me his certificate when asked but when I asked for paperwork to show he had a court order to clamp car he said he is an APR bailiff and does not have to carry one. The tow truck was there and they said my car would be towed immediately. I said this was not lawful but bailiff insisted it was. Anyway rather then argue back and forth I called one of my friends to help pay and JBW said fine was now £722. I have every intention of taking it further. One thing I would like to ask is do JBW have a way of tracking mobile phone calls. Both times I have been clamped it has never been at my home address. When I was clamped in Enfield in August it was at a relative's house where I had called JBW from my phone previously to dispute the amount. Yesterday I was round my sisters house in Edmonton when they called my mobile asking me to make a payment arrangement. Its seems too much of a coincidence.

[ploddertom]

Re: Issue with JBW Baliff

There are a few versions of a Bailiff.
1 - County Court Bailiff - who operates as a salaried employee of HMCTS
2 - Private Bailiffs who come under 2 guises
a - Certificated - who are allowed to collect on Council Tax, PCN, Magistrate Court Fines etc
b - Un-Certificated - who do other work but very restrictive

There is no such thing as an ANPR Bailiff, Van Bailiff, Enforcement Baiiff, Head Bailiff etc. These may be positions within a company but in actual fact are just Certificated Bailiffs. It would indeed be interesting to find out what Law/Regulation allows them to clamp as my understanding is that clamping is allowed for only specific purposes:
i - a vehicle that may be causing an obstruction prior to be being towed away
ii - not displaying a valid Road Fund Licence
iii - subject to a Clamping Order from the Magistrates Court for collection of an unpaid criminal fine

Did the Bailiff have a valid levy? Had you been given a prior Notice of Seizure? When attended at your own home had the Bailiff asked to gain entry? If he has made no move to make a levy on your goods and just seized the car as it was an easy target then it could be held to be an Excessive Levy and therefore unlawful.

I don't doubt a letter to JBW asking for details of how they could clamp would be a load of fudge.